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This Uric Acid and Fructose discussion is now closed. Please see my Uric Acid, Diet & Fructosepage. If you still have questions about fructose and gout, please start a new topic here.
So there seems to be some kind of strong link between Fructose and Gout.
Sugary drinks have been blamed for a surge in cases of the painful joint disease gout.
Taken from- news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7219473.stm
“In humans, acute oral or intravenous administration of fructose results in a rapid increase in serum levels of uric acid through accentuated degradation of purine nucleotides and increased purine synthesis,”
“Our data provide prospective evidence that fructose poses a substantial risk for gout,” the study authors conclude. “These data even suggest that the risk posed by free fructose intake could be at least as large as that by purine rich foods such as total meat consumption (relative risk between extreme fifths of intake 1.4126). Thus, the conventional low purine diet approach allowing fructose intake could potentially worsen the overall net risk of gout attacks.”
Taken from- cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/569656
I understand that corn syrup type of sweet stuff is bad but fruits have fructose too! I have racked my brain for what might have set off my supposed genetic predisposition for Gout despite me being a vegetarian close to 10 years before my 1st gout attack! I almost never drank sugary drinks, alcohol and was always fit, active and slim!
Being a vegetarin I obviously consumed lot of fruits and vegetables (both have lot of fructose). For example I even used to consume 4-5 apples a day. Could my high fruit diet have set it all off?
Edit- I would strongly like to believe that we are what we eat despite our supposed genetic predisposition to different ailments. I feel something must have flipped the switch on in my case (0r all our cases).
Grrr! maybe I am struggling to fully acknowledge that despite my healthy life style choices I still got hit by gout 🙁 It just feels so unfair! 🙂
Dietary causes account for about 12% of gout
That's where I prefer to leave it, with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet. So 9 chances out of 10 the best and only thing you can do to successfully treat gout is to use proper medications.
If a small fraction of the 12% is caused by fructose consumption, the rest of the 12% by ” strong association with the consumption of alcohol, sugar, meat, and seafood” why give it a second thought beyond the fact that excess fructose calories will make you fat.
Veg guy, you will never find the cause of your gout if you cannot find a hereditary link. Or, let me guess here, is there still a lingering doubt whether you have gout?
zip2play said:
Veg guy, you will never find the cause of your gout if you cannot find a hereditary link. Or, let me guess here, is there still a lingering doubt whether you have gout?
Yeah you are right. Just wanted to hear it from someone else. Anyway it runs on both my mum and dad's side of the family so I guess I was destined to have it
Or, let me guess here, is there still a lingering doubt whether you have gout?
Nah! no doubt. Joint fluid test does not lie
Plus AlloP took my 1+ year long pain away so that double confirms that I have Gout. Just was feeliong bit down last night after coming from gym. Everyone was working hard and I was taking it slow like some fragile old man I feel positive again this morning.
This is not an 'either /or' question.
If intakes of suger and such have been going up by large amounts over the years -then the base line for gout can likely have shifted up a couple of notches. Throw in genetics, alcoholic drinks, obesity and the rest we have a winner!
Thus, though the 12% may be directly attributed to causing gout a good half of the remainder could easily be compromised towards an earlier break out of gout as the curve will probaly be bathtub.
Look at the age profiles of new cases here recently! Not traditional.
Witn some circumspection, us oldies can hold back the flood and I have, as reported lately reduced my adherence to quite so much fruit 'alkalizing' diet -as by urine checks this did not do the trick, at least in the short term and I'm still attack free
If you're taking AlloP etc., you will not notice these issues so readily- that's the subjective problem.
zip2play said:... only thing you can do to successfully treat gout is to use proper medications…
with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet. …
If a small fraction of the 12% is caused by fructose consumption, the rest of the 12% by “ strong association with the consumption of alcohol, sugar, meat, and seafood” why give it a second thought beyond the fact that excess fructose calories will make you fat...
“with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet.” That's where I disagree with you. It's far more than 12%. Just look at all the processed foods on the shelves! Most of them have HFCS instead of sugar. (HFCS=High Fructose Corn Sugar)
“why give it a second thought beyond the fact that excess fructose calories will make you fat” Because the food industry has substituted it for sugar in the last 40 years (to save money) and history shows that gout has increased dramatically during the last 40 years. And not just gout. Fat young, middle-aged, and old people, especially among the “non-rich” kings and robber barons, since they are forced to buy what the food giants pawn off to them at lower prices have increased in diabetes, obesity, and who knows what else.
“only thing you can do to successfully treat gout is to use proper medications.” Not everybody is as fortunate as you to be able to take/tolerate Allopurinol or afford Uloric, the ONLY two uric acid lowering drugs on the market today.
I understadn Zip is bit extreme in his pop the pill and forget about food attitude
but Trev you are extreme at the other end with your diet will fix everythign take So Hansinm and Trev how do you explain Gout in my case then?
Leading up to my 1st gout attack at 35-36 I was…..
– 100% vegetarian for a decade (still am and will be for life)
– Hardly touched Alcohol or any fake suggary drinks (or much any sweet stuff for that matter).
– Mostly avoided processed or fatty food.
– Slim with excellent cardio fitness level.
It has to be 100% genetic in my case. Father and mum side both have gout cases. So why did my diet not protect me if food is so important in your opinion for gout control? What turned the gout switch on in my body? I know no one can answer it but just saying
vegetarianGuy said:
…
So Hansinm and Trev how do you explain Gout in my case then?
…
It has to be 100% genetic in my case. Father and mum side both have gout cases. So why did my diet not protect me if food is so important in your opinion for gout control? What turned the gout switch on in my body? I know no one can answer it but just saying
VegyGuy, you said it and I agree with you: It has to be 100% genetic in my case.
I dare say that most of our gout is hereditary and based on the foods and drinks we consume. Let's not forget that ALL human beings have uric acid in their “system”. It depends how our “system” handles it: dismantles it and gets rid of it. And that's where our inheritance packages from our parents and grandparents, etc. come in.
My dad had it from early on. I drank alcoholic beverages since I was a kid. I did NOT get gout till I was 53 (that is, becoming obvious through an attack). BUT my uric acid levels increased every year, which I did NOT know, until it was too late.
VG- I don't know where you get this 'diet will fix all' take with me.
I never say that. In my case I mangage without ULMs, as I can do that right now. I've said this leaves me at risk from urate left in my system- & also risking further attacks. I've suggested to quite a few posters here that ULMeds are probably the best route for them.
I've no idea what caused your gout in detail ,but you know full well the factors.
You are on the AlloP track now -so will have to tolerate 'less deserving' cases 'getting away with it'
trev said:
VG- I don't know where you get this 'diet will fix all' take with me.
I never say that. In my case I mangage without ULMs, as I can do that right now. I've said this leaves me at risk from urate left in my system- & also risking further attacks. I've suggested to quite a few posters here that ULMeds are probably the best route for them.
I've no idea what caused your gout in detail ,but you know full well the factors.
You are on the AlloP track now -so will have to tolerate 'less deserving' cases 'getting away with it'
It was just the general impression I got that you and Zip were almost on the opposite side when it came to to diet/AlloP. Sorry if I offended you in anyway
I do think that diet plays SOME part in EVERYTHING. Depending on the disease the role of diet can range from minor to major. I can only speak about my experience with gout and frankly I had no alternative but to go on AlloP as there were not many diet related stones left for me to unturn.Btw Trev you could be amongst the statistical 12% hence benefiting from your diet control. Even then I think we will have to wait few years to know if you truly succeeded in taming the Gout beast. I don't have access to your SUA numbers so can't truly judge how effective your method is.
Either way as a fellow gouty I only want the best for you
vegetarianGuy said:
It has to be 100% genetic in my case. Father and mum side both have gout cases. So why did my diet not protect me if food is so important
Genetic profile is undoubtedly the most important factor, but Veg you were consuming massive amounts of protein (several kgs of assorted nuts per week wasn't it?) From this point of view, the fact you didn't eat meat was probably irrelevant and you may even have been better off eating moderate amounts of flesh to satisfy your body's craving for protein….mmmmmm meaty
odo said:(several kgs of assorted nuts per week wasn't it?)
Around 400 gms plain nuts in a week….ONLY when I was feeling out of control. It was not a very regular thing. I don't think my protein intake overall was high. If it was then I would not have struggled to put on muscle mass despite weight training regularly. If I average it out then I would say in last 10 years I have eaten 50gms or less per week.
Anyway latest research shows that non meat protein intake is not relvant to Gout.
***protein and purine rich vegetables (not purine rich meat) were exonerated as potential risk factors
Wiki-
Recent studies have found that dietary factors once believed to be associated are in fact not, including the intake of purine rich vegetables and total protein
My point is that nuts are non-meat protein source. I genuinely don't think my protein intake was above normal. My food intake was definitely not above my daily needs. If it was then I would have put on weight.
Maybe my cashew nut intake played a part but I am skeptical. For example….
400gms of Cashews in a week = 4×15gms= 60gms of protein.
For my age/size/sex and physical activity the daily reccomended protein intake-
Your daily Protein intake is 94 grams (658gms weekly).
This amount is the minimum recommended daily protein intake. This amount applies only to adults and children over the age of 4.So yeah if I take the worst day example (say I ate 400gms of Cashew nuts in a day). I was still under my daily protein intake requirments. I guess I will never know why I got Gout.
I must just move on and just stick with the only thing that has worked for me ie. Lord AlloP.
vegetarianGuy said:
Post edited 10:01 pm – July 23, 2010 by vegetarianGuy
So yeah if I take the worst day example (say I ate 400gms of Cashew nuts in a day). I was still under my weekly protein intake requirments. And that was just from nuts, what about al the other sources: seeds, grains, legumes etc. Who knows how your body would react to such high loading – maybe by elevated dumping of urate in your joints in order to cope with the raised SUA?
It's just a theory and only relevant in terms of whether your lifestyle brought on gout earlier rather than later. I was just trying to point out that what would normally be considered a healthier diet (veggie) may make no difference to someone who is destined for gout.
I guess I will never know why I got Gout. Sure you do; it's cos you're a gouty
I must just move on and just stick with the only thing that has worked for me ie. Lord AlloP. Yep, and I shall probably be joining you quite soon
And that was just from nuts, what about al the other sources: seeds, grains, legumes etc
Eating seeds? You must think that I am a bird
Seriously though I always used to balance stuff. So if I over did on cashews then I would not consume other protein rich stuff that day. Plus I was giving a worst case scenario and even then I was way below my recommended protein intake. Anyway who knows all that combined with my heavy fruit intake migth have played a part.Ok I have gout so it is about time I make my peace with it and move on…..but I don't want to make it any worse hence the constant need to understand it. After all 1 year of non stop suffering was no joke for me. I am mentally scarred from that nightmare
Yep, and I shall probably be joining you quite soon
Now you are talking
@VG – I got that you and Zip were almost on the opposite side when it came to to diet/AlloP
This is broadly true -but I'm more tolerant
My take is if you can manage without meds for any condition that is a laudable path, so long as attendant risks are acknowledged.
The drug Co's hide the side effects of many chemicals in trial flummery,and if this was not so more people would rely on them. Fact is- it's nearly always better to use natural methods of cure [IF Possible!] , as by definition all others are unnatural, like it or not.
Back to fructose- this is bad component of modern diet because it IS like a drug to many who can't manage without a fix.
Using fruits is a very healthy way of using your 'allowance' on sugar intake as the vitamins and alkalising effect are plusses you don't usually get with sweet products, inc. drinks. [See high sucrose figure for dried apricots, for instance- though alkalising]
Otherwise, thinking about the meds/sucrose issue- it's like taking drugs for no good reason apart from short term lift with long term bad effects.
So sucrose worse, in my book, for this reason.
On diet in general, everything in moderation is always a good watchword.
A handful of nuts a day is plenty for protein, though amino acids are needed widely by the body-and need to made up from other sources to balance out.
“with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet.” That's where I disagree with you. It's far more than 12%.
hans,
You are not disagreeing with me. I merely repeated the Wikipedia entry that veg guy reported in his second post. I have no idea whether the entry is correct or not, but just commented on it as if it was.
I think it might be quite a bit higher than that but the problem is that KNOWING that seems to do very few people any good. If we knew that a lot of cancer was caused by diet, how much good would it do us when we received our cancer diagnosis. Dietary controls for gout have shown themselves over the last 2 millennia as being of dubious worth at best, no matter WHAT the cause. It might be laudable to try to control an illness without drugs…it might also be deadly or crippling.
This fructose nonsense is just the latest fad to gain internet space for people with no knowledge of gout. So fructose has gone full circle in 20 years from being the sugar that we NEEDED to stay slim because it dissolved so slowly (I have a long memeory…people were buying packets of fructose and gobbling it) to the bad kid on the block and the cause of all disease. It is all just so tedious.
(Does fructose cause cancer and Alzheimer's yet yet or is that next year?)I believe the current wave of obesity is not the fault of sugar consumption but rather too many lard asses plopped in front of the TV as a respite from being plopped in front of the computer monitor while stuffing their other hole with too much food: sugar, meat, fat, greasy carbs, cheese on everything. I sometimes think the only exercise some people get is to go out and get more food.
Rest assured, fructose will go away and some NEW scourge will be found by some quacks to explain all our ills, just buy their books to find out which… $29.95 at Barnes and Noble.
If there are any doubters on the fructose/gout connection, the solution is simple: merely toss out your allopurinol and colchicine and give up all fructose. Easy/peasy. You will get your definitive answer within a year…perhaps you will get the answer several times.
trev said:
…
The drug Co's hide the side effects of many chemicals in trial flummery,and if this was not so more people would rely on them. Fact is- it's nearly always better to use natural methods of cure [IF Possible!] , as by definition all others are unnatural, like it or not.
Back to fructose- this is bad component of modern diet because it IS like a drug to many who can't manage without a fix.
…
Otherwise, thinking about the meds/sucrose issue- it's like taking drugs for no good reason apart from short term lift with long term bad effects.
…
I go along with your viewpoint on fructose, Trev.
@ Zips: The solution is simple: merely toss out your allopurinol and colchicine and give up all fructose
Yes. We do have to experiiment a fair bit on our gout
-but that's a step too far ! zip2play said:
Post edited 3:01 pm – July 24, 2010 by zip2play
…This fructose nonsense is just the latest fad to gain internet space for people with no knowledge of gout. …
Rest assured, fructose will go away and some NEW scourge will be found by some quacks to explain all our ills, just buy their books to find out which… $29.95 at Barnes and Noble.
…
“This fructose nonsense is just the latest fad”! I, the medical industry, the pharma industry, and the big food giants industry beg to differ with you, Zip. HFCS has saved them and has made them a lot of money over the last 40 years. The food giants saved a lot of money on sugar and made a lot using HFCS. The medical industry made a lot of money on the diabetics who sought heir help. And, of course, the pharma industry got stinky rich on all the gadgets and meds they “invented” for the poor bastards who were “plopped in front of the TV… while stuffing their other hole with too much food: sugar, meat, fat, greasy carbs, cheese on everything.”
“just buy their books to find out which… $29.95 at Barnes and Noble.” People don't need to spend $29.95 at Barnes; they get it a lot cheaper buying the industry's “sugared” waters to explain and sooth their ills.
I've been researching the “high fructose corn syrup and NASH/gout” for awhile now and there are a few important points to remember:
– fruit contains fructose, but not “HFCS AKA high fructose corn syrup” and they are not the same thing. Fruits also contain fiber (especially strawberry) and fiber is good for you, so the potential negative effect of fructose is “offset” by the benefits of fiber (in my humble opinion)
– HFCS is very prevalent in pop/soda/juices and most people in the US, especially kids drink alot of these….
– I believe that HFCS is bad for me because of my liver disease and gout. Do I believe that HFCS “caused” them? I'm not ready to make that decision yet…
– I'm removing all HFCS from my diet and it won't be easy but I really want to see if it helps me…
This Uric Acid and Fructose discussion is now closed. Please see my Uric Acid, Diet & Fructose page. If you still have questions about fructose and gout, please start a new topic here.
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