- This topic has 24 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 10 months ago by
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Good that you have discovered one of your triggers, but don't kid yourself that you have conquered gout. Knowing your uric acid values via blood testing is key to staying pain free.
I was going to say 8 months isn't that long to be so confident, but you didn't mention you were on Allo in your original post. It's good to eliminate fructose, but the Allo has to take the majority of the credit for your success.
tonyccc said:
Here is my story. It was the middle of the night. I opened my eyes and was awakened by earth shattering pain. My big toe was throbbing. In fact it felt like a towering inferno.?
I turned on the light and was startled to see that my great toe was 3 times its normal size. It was bright red and red hot, just like a firecracker and the pain was the most severe that I?ve ever experienced by far.
The suffering that I had to endure was almost unbelievable.
That was over ten years ago. At the beginning I was having attacks
every 6 months. Then gradually I was getting them every 3 months, then every month and eventually
every week.It started at my big toe and then it was moving sometimes in my knees,and generally
all around my joints, in my feet.And the pain was agonising.
I have tried all the cures you can imagine.I tried ACV, lemons, drinking a lot of water, but to no avail.
I tried water fasting, juice fasting,baking soda, again without success.
I almost gave up meat, limiting it? to only once a week ,gave up alcohol completely,again no success.
I was living on? vegetables, lots and lots of fresh fruit, milk ,cheese beans and so on .My eating habits
could not be healthier ,or so I thought.But my gout was worsening.
Then I decided to increase the amount of fruit I was consuming, thinking that if some fruit is healthy, more
fruit will be more healthy.Some days I was eating fruit only ,others over 10 portions a day.
And alas my gout instead of improving it became chronic ,it was there all the time.
I was desperate I did not know what to do.And then one day accidentally I read an article about fructose,
which is contained in fruit in large quantities.It said that it increases uric acid, in a matter of minutes.
Fructose is also present in table sugar, and? in HFCS, which is used in soft drinks.
I put two and two together and realised what I was doing wrong.
I stopped eating fruit and all other sugars, for a period of 3 weeks,and by magic I saw a dramatic
improvement.Pain was gone, swelling was gone, I was fine.
I re introduced fruit again in my diet but reducing them to 1 or 2 a day, and my gout almost disappeared.
I do eat more meat now, and occasionally have an alcoholic drink, and thank God I? everything seems to be fine.
Fructose was my enemy.
odo said:
I was going to say 8 months isn't that long to be so confident, but you didn't mention you were on Allo in your original post. It's good to eliminate fructose, but the Allo has to take the majority of the credit for your success.
?Tony… Fructose has definately been my trigger and it appears Red Wine is bed, yet lager isn't to bad? I've cut back on the fruit juice massively and it has made a world of difference. Attack free since June 2010. My uric acid count has also gone down… but even when it spikes the dreaded toe does not return…. I had quite a bit of fruit the other week and I got the night twinges again. I guess we are all different but it seems to be working for me?tony,
How much allopurinol are you taking? How long have you taken it?
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Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds a bit like the guy who kept hurting himself by jumping from an airplane: He gave up salami and bought a parachute and attributes the lack of salami for saving his life.
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(There is no chemical way the body can make uric acid from fructose…there is a Double ring xanthine structure that cannot be created or destroyed by the human body.)
This thread is going to be deleted very soon as it is totally misleading.
I cannot allow novice gout sufferers who might be contemplating, or even trying to understand allopurinol, to be misled in this way.
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Gout has one cause – excess uric acid. Allopurinol has one purpose? – lower uric acid (though scientists are looking at other benefits).
Now it may be true that cutting out fructose lowers uric acid, but that is not the point.
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Talking about avoiding fructose to lower uric acid, or talking about allopurinol to lower uric acid is utterly pointless without some uric acid numbers.
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Not only is it pointless, it is misleading. I will leave this a few days to see if someone wants to give some reliable information. I can accept people's own uric acid measurements, though I would rather see some double-blind randomized control data.
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There is plenty of information in the Gout Treatment section about allopurinol. Just search for allopurinol uric acid in the box above. There is little information about fructose, because so far, all the evidence I have seen is compromised by bad science and/or vested interests.
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One week maximum to say something sensible about fructose, or I will set it as a banned word.
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[sorry about the rant, you got me on a bad day]
When I calmed down from the bad experience that prompted my rant above, I wondered what it was about this topic that got to me.
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Something didn't ring quite true. I've spent nearly 6 years doing this gout support thing, and ten years before that trying to work my way through all the BS on the Internet. I've learned to find the good stuff, and ignore the bad, but there are so many vested interests these days, I can still be caught out.
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As an aside, I recently restarted my efforts to promote gout support through Facebook. When I first looked at it, there wasn't much available, but now, the world of gout is dominated by self-interest. One major pharmaceutical company has invested millions in a marketing campaign through a third party (it might be a group of companies as the trails are muddied, and I cannot really be bothered wasting rime investigating shysters). They might call it Gout Study, but it aint going to help gouties much. There'll be a few crumbs to keep people interested, but the study is really how to prey on fears about allopurinol and other aspects of gout so you can push some expensive drugs. Below the exploitative pharmas, we have a range of so called entrepreneurs who push pseudo-scientific reports at exhorbitant prices, or so-called herbal cures that they've prepared in their garage.
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Here lies one of the second group.
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Copy the first three sentences of this topic into Google, and you get 114,000 results most of which link to gout forums such as this, or spammy sales sites that push a rubbish report at $49.97 (?40.68). There's bound to be more rubbish – that's what jumping on the fructose-bashing bandwagon without looking does for you. What hurts me is that respectable, caring people have responded in good faith to this rubbish that has been posted to any forum in the world that was good enough to try and help.
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Seasoned gout forum contributors will remember many similar attempts to rip-off our well-meaning members here and elsewhere. Often you can spot them by the stupid usernames they choose, but tonyccc is so confident in his ability to rip people off, he's stopped inventing new names.
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Back to Google again, this time to search for tonyccc, and you find more rubbish, including lots of second hand car stuff. Along the way I discovered Donis Fylaktou who might be a pseudonym, his real name, or an associate. Who cares!
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Hours of time spent polluting our Internet with self-serving rubbish.
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Now, if this was the only way to earn a living, it might be understandable, but it is not. I have repeatedly offered to work with gout support suppliers to help promote good quality products and services openly and honestly. Trust me, it is a great way to make a living.
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One last chance, tonyccc. Tell me if you have anything good to offer, and while you spend time removing your shit from the Internet, I'll come up with an honest and open and non-exploiting way for you to earn a living.
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Do you have anything good to offer?
I? am not selling anything.I never said I was an expert on anything. AllI wanted to do is help some fellow gout sufferers through my own personal experience.If you want to behave like a dictator that is your problem.
Doctors Robert Lustig, and Richard Johnson? would definitely disagree with all your shit.
You do not show any respect to other peoples oppinions and experiences.I pity you.
Go ahead and remove all my posts.Nothing will please me more.
?By the way sarcasm it is the lowest form of wit and the highest form of vulgarity. Only those without
class use it
I cannot speak about Lustig and Johnson but Mercola is a complete and utter charlatan. His voice is the most damaging thing the internet has ever done tothe health of its users (except may extensive sloth.) I have read more stupid ?claptrap requoted from this man than I would have though possible in one lifetime.
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For those who don't know, he is an OSTEOPATH not an MD.
There is a danger in the internet: anyone can post ANYTHING, no matter how invalid and it is only the incessant bombardment of the nonsense that makes it seem, TO SOME, as valid information. It is the price of free speech now available to everyone with a single click.
It uised to be the aphorism DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ was valid. With the internet it is valid 1000 times over.
tonyccc said
Go ahead and remove all my posts.Nothing will please me more.
Well, you might as well finish the job he started Keith. He has contributed nothing of value to the forum & now he's being offensive.
Get rid of him.
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(but don't ban the F word, some other misinformed individual might need help with understanding the facts surrounding this issue)
tonyccc said:
Doctors Robert Lustig,Richard Johnson? and Dr ?Mercola would definitely disagree with all your shit.
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tonyccc, before you speak for Dr Lustig, you better take another look for what he stands:
“Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) [especially, HFCS] and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin.”
His fight is against obesity and diabetes, concentrating on children, primarily, not gout.
Re Dr Richard Johnson: About which Dr Johnson are you talking? 1) ?Richard P. Johnson, Ph.D. ; 2) Dr. Richard W. Johnson, MD, Kew Gardens, NY ; 3) Dr. Richard J. Johnson – University of Florida Department of Medicine; 4) Richard F. Johnson, MD; 5) Dr. Richard Johnson, DC, ?West Bloomfield, MI,; 6) ?Dr. Richard A. Johnson – Idaho State University; 7) Dr. Richard R. Johnson – NC State University???
I'd be careful, quoting public figures without properly identifying them and for what they stand.
Watch you tube “Sugar The Bitter Truth “by Robert H. Lustig, it goes on for 1 hour 30 minutes just watch from minute 58th.
He explains scientifically how fructose pruduces uric acid.
See also Richard J Johnson University of Florida in his book “The Sugar Fix ” Page? 75 “Fructose and the return of an old thread.”also page81 and so on.It is generally about fructose and obesity but he also explains how fructose produces uric acid
Google fructose and gout and see what comes up.
also see
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2007/January08/Pages/Sugarydrinksandgout.aspx
tony,
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The nhs link is not uninteresting but let;s see what we have there:
What were the results of the study?
About 1.5% of the men (755) developed gout during the study. Men who drank more fizzy drinks were more likely to develop gout than those who drank fewer fizzy drinks.
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Men who had more than one fizzy drink a day increased their risk by 45%; two or more drinks a day increased the risk by 85%, compared with men who drank less than one fizzy drink a month. Diet fizzy drinks did not increase the risk of gout. People with the highest intake of fructose doubled their risk of gout compared with those with the lowest intake.
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They are drawing a conclusion by separating the gout population of 755 men who said they got a gout diagnosis. This population excludes the other 98.5 % who did NOT develop gout. Then they compare those who said the has 2 or more fizzy drinks per day (an aside is beer fizzy?) with those who claim to have ZERO fizzy drinks in a month. VERY few people can claim to have ZERO fizzy frinks per month. There are people who think fizzy drinks, like junk food, is BAD for one;s image so they might lie about never having any.
Any estimate of the number of those 755 who had ZERO fizzy drinks per MONTH? Can we envision 2, 3 or 4 people? Is there a good reason they didn't MENTION the number. Can one draw ANY conclusion from a vanishingly small sample? I have a friend who eats NO sugar, or so she says, but then we'll stop for dinner and she NEVER skips dessert. So perhaps ASKING people what they eat does not yield trustworthy results.
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Were the FIZZY people washing down Big Mac's and Double Whoppers with the fizzies?the connection would NOT be unexpected. Were the fizzy people HEAVIER than the abstainers?
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So, I conclude this is a BAD study?the internet is filled with them. It sounds like a possible ploy to sell DIET soda.
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HFCS is found in almost all processed food. If one is going to try to connect it with gout why not measure the entire HFCS in a diet rather than taking one element, CARBONATED (fizzy)?beverages. Carbon Dioxide is a very potent? acidifier, and acid is a well known uric acid precipitator.
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Just a hiint from years of experience: When someone talks about the single food that is causing dozens or hundreds of illnesses, or a food or supplement (usually available from the same someone)?that will CURE many illnesses, the person is LYING.
We should have learned that from the Vitamin C scam and it's hucksters.
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Oh, Mercola believes HIV is not the casue of AIDS?but rather it is the WORRY about AIDS that causes AIDS. Assholes like this are a conceivable ?argument to restrict free speech although it must not be done.
We must simply learn how to tell wisdom from charlettanism.
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But in truth, nobody will harm himself by giving up HFCS, Frustose, Sucrose, glucose, lactose, mannose, honey, molasses and soda. They are all empty calories.
?But don't look for a gout cure.
zip2play
You have a good point there,what you are saying makes sense.But in my particular caseI?may even be an exceptional case, too sensitive to fructose,fructose was the main culprit.
You mentioned earlier that fructose was probably your trigger, too.I found a few others in other forums not many I must admit that had the same problem.
I do agree Dr Mercola is a bit off the line ,but the other 2? I mentioned are very ditiquished doctors.
Have you watched The video?
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Gout is not an issue for me anymore.I have been Gout free for over 10 months.The only reason I stayed on was to help some fellow sufferers through my experience.So I will not be spending much time on this forum.Thank you.
I do hope that everyone who has read this far understands the issues here.
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Over-use of fructose in food manufacturing, from the peer-reviewed scientific research that I have read, is likely to cause health problems. One or two over-zealous investigators have hinted at gout implications, but nobody has done a proper study that compares uric acid levels at different fructose intake levels. zip2play has explained why the single study quoted is meaningless in this context. Statistical studies are excellent ways to find likely areas of study for cause-effect relationships, but they do not confirm or deny those relationships – they only flag areas for more research.
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In the murky world of Internet Marketing, people seize upon these quirks of science, and manipulate the unwary by supplying the shoddy reports and snake oil that I have mentioned previously. Nothing new in that regard, except that the Internet has allowed these people to band together and create a network of misleading websites that act with the sole purpose of making money. They will make outrageous educational claims, and deliberately cause confusion so that they can claim that they have the only secret answers. They will never point to authoritative sources, as those sources simply do not exist. That is why tonyccc keeps urging us to use Google and YouTube for our research, as these resources are easy to manipulate.
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I'll pause here for a tip (or two). Google has some useful tools, but the general search includes a lot of spam. Obvious spam gets caught and filtered out, but the type of networked spam I have referred to is difficult to trap. It is much better to look to the top of the Google screen, got to the More section and select Scholar. Most of the resources are reliable, but still be wary – anyone can write a book, and not all the sources are peer-reviewed. The second tip is – YouTube is an entertainment channel, but spammers see it as a fair target to try and add credence to the snake oil pitch. I will not be seeking or watching the aforementioned video.
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Lest you be fooled by the “I'm not selling” lie, just because there is no direct link to a product or service. That is not the point. The snake-oil pushers are just engaging in a little brand awareness. In other circles, it is called grooming.
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I leave the tonyccc posts here as a warning. Please feel free to read them, but please ignore every single word he has said. Free speech is good, but distracting.
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I hope we can get back to the real discussion, which is fructose and uric acid. As odo has pointed out, Fructose is an issue that should be discussed, and discussed with precise and relevant facts. There may be new research, or reports I have missed.
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To be clear where I stand, there is sufficient evidence to flag fructose as a risk, but you have to take control of your own gout management. Uric acid levels are the only thing that matter. Once you have that number, and an agreement with your doctor for repeat tests as you need them, you can see if changing your diet is improving your gout. You cannot rely on pain or the absence of it. If you have ever had a gout attack, you must get uric acid to 5mg/dL (0.30mmol/L). If dropping fructose does that, then you and your doctor will be happy. And I'll be happy to here from you – with the numbers.
How Does Your Body Produce Uric Acid?
It?s a byproduct of cellular breakdown. As cells die off, DNA and RNA degrade into chemicals called purines. Purines are further broken down into uric acid.
Fructose increases uric acid through a complex process that causes cells to burn up their ATP rapidly, leading to ?cell shock? and increased cell death. After eating excessive amounts of fructose, cells become starved of energy and enter a state of shock, just as if they have lost their blood supply. Massive cellular die-off leads to increased uric acid levels.
According to Dr. Johnson1, sugar activates its own pathways in your body?those metabolic pathways become ?upregulated.? In other words, the more sugar you eat, the more effective your body is in absorbing it; and the more you absorb, the more damage you?ll do.
Any bad diet has the potential to cause the metabolic problems described above. Fasting, in particular, is well documented. Excess fructose may well promote cellular death, but no more than any other nutritional imbalance. It is a good reason to promote healthy eating, it is not an excuse to sell overpriced pseudo-scientific reports.
Keith (Gout Admin) said:
?it is not an excuse to sell overpriced pseudo-scientific reports.
and dishonestly claim 'a cure for gout'.
This Big Mac gout topic is now closed.
It covers several themes, including:
- Big Mac gout
- 10 months free of gout
- gout “big mac” purine
Sadly, there are no real answers here, because it is all part of a scam by tonyccc, who fooled people into providing serious replies when all he was interested in was self-promotion of the rubbish he peddles.
I will move the relevant parts of the discussion to a new common questions section, as time allows. In the meantime, you can easily search for current discussions, or start a new discussion.
You can find the search box at the top of every page, or at the foot of the right-hand sidebar. Even easier, please use the gout search page.
Please browse the Gout Diet guidelines for best information.
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