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One constant that I see here is that NO ONE agrees to either treatment or cause.
One person says tomatoes are the BEST. The next states that tomatoes are the WORST.
One person states that Folic Acid neitralizes Uric Acid, the next states that you would need to take a barrel full of it to help.
One person states to give up alcohol, another states little or no effect if you take baking soda and lots of water.
One thing I notice about the medical field is that even though BILLIONS are spent annually, there has not been any or very little cures for ANY disease. ie: heart disease, cancer, blocked arteries, etc. and yes, GOUT. The answer to ALL medical issues by “doctors” is to take drugs. I live in Florida, where I see SO MANY elderly people hooked on “legal” drugs, taking 10-20 pills per day. One pill resolves one ill and then causes a new ill. Then, the legal “pill pusher” prescribes a pill for that ill. Which in turn causes yet another ill. And, on and on.
The only thing that seems to help is Allopurinol.
The two common posters here Zip2play and GoutPal cannot even agree on cause and effect. Blogs are great so that we can discuss issues like gout and others, but in this case it only serves to muddy that waters even more.
Fact: Up until the 1960's, doctors made approximately the same amount of money as Trim Carpenters. Now, somehow, they are millionaires, live in big houses and drive luxury cars. For what? They can't cure anything, just push more pills. The only doctors that I have seen that are worth more than $60K a year are Surgeons, heart and brain especially. The others are dealers for the big drug companies. If Allopurinol controls gout and taking up to 800mg a day is OK, then why is it a prescription drug? Answer: So, you need to pay the “pill pusher” for the script.
I've moved this here as it was posted in a topic “Food to Lower Uric Acid”, to which it has no relevance. I realise that conversations can easily wander off topic, and try not to moderate unless absolutely necessary, but this really adds nothing to the debate.
Yes, Jack, the world is not perfect.
Comment to Jack..
Yes, it's easy to agree about pill orientated mediics- but do they have much choice?
That's also how they're trained to think and modern drugs have multiplied- and are complex in their interactions.
Further , even if AlloP. is generally well tolerated it can still have severe side effects and this would preclude it being non prescription.
In all fairness, would you like to be a medic and do it all from first principles- would you even get insurance cover?
It's well published that a large minority of deaths are due to the wrong mediical intervention or hospital bourne infections, but the majority of people ( survivors) don't hang around to ask.
It's long been said- Docs bury their mistakes.
Sounds like a rant about everything
Mind if I rant away as well? I do agree that on average docs are just pill pushers. I lost my faith in god kind of hocus pocus stuff long time ago and in recent times I have lost my faith in science as welll. Everyone is just a number in this world so don't be surprised if you get treated like a number as well. We are just passing through this world like we pass through our docs office Burial or cremation for you sir? 
Jack,
I agree with almost everything you said. My last GP was an incompetent asshole who wrote the most basic recurring prescriptions, too blood pressure, and drew blood to send to labs. Then he read the list the lab sent him and circled everything that the lab said was out of the normal range. For everythin else he scribbles down the name of a friend who is a specialist in something…this include even a simple rash. For any upper respiratory problems he says “there's a lot of that going around.”
For this he makes $250,000/year.
But I have one strong disagreement with you on:
The two common posters here Zip2play and GoutPal cannot even agree on cause and effect.
We agree that the cause is an inborn genetic error in mankind that, unlike many species, does not produce the enzyme uricase which breaks down uric acid to easily soluble allantoin. All people have too much uric acid and those that have MUCH too much get gout. The cure, for those with gout, which I am sure we both agree on is either to make less UA (allopurinol or febuxostat) or to get rid of more of it (probenecid.) We are in strong agreement on cause and effect. I think we both agree that colchicine is a very effective treatment but other pain relievers can work also. We both agree that dietary changes can have an effect on UA concentration but the effect is slight compared to KING allopurinol.
(Correct me, GP, if I have misstated your opinion.)
Now, as for the OTHER stuff:
Tomatoes yes, tomatoes no. Coffee yes, coffee no. And all the ancvient BS about anchovies, sweetberads, and organ meats….when's the last time you ate sweetbreads in an anchovy sauce? Black bean broth, cherries, heat, cold, bicarbonate, Vitamin C megadosing, chondroitin, glucosamine, tea-tree oil and on and on.
Remember, gout was untreatable only a half century ago. With the single exception of colchicine there was NO treatment even for the pain of an acute attack (aspirin is not good unless you eat it like candy.) Quacks abhore a medical vacuum. Before 1950, every quackmeister crawled out of his hole with yet another nostrum…just pay the barker. A lot of this claptrap still exists and where before 1990 it had to pass the muster of an editor and a printing press so you didn't see too much. But now with the internet ANYTHING can be peddled indiscriminately and all of this eighteenth century garbage comes bubbling back up. (In some circles is was thought that it was a demon in the joint that caused the attack.)
My position, and I'm sure GP's is that when someone comes along and says such and such worked for him, neither of us wants to throw cold water on the idea. Maybe there's something to it, and there's always the placebo effect. But I'm sure we both agree on the PROPER way to deal with gout: to lower uric acid and to test it reguarly to make sure it stays low for the rest of one's life.
So I will never be one to say that cherries don't prevent attacks but neither will I ever recommend them to anyone becasue I feel the purpose of the prom,otion is to sell expensive cherries.
And as for the overview of doctors: the health care system in the United States is badly broken…chances of ever fixing it are slim. My answer is, as much as possible, to be my own doctor. If you count on yourself, at least you are counting on someone who CARES. Without too much effort you can make yourself far more competent than ANY GP on the subject of gout. THere's no point in bemoaning their stupidity…it is legion.
And yes, they have the prescription pad and the power of the federal government says that under penalty of imprisonment, only the strongest UNION on the planet, the AMA, is empowered to allow you to get a proper treatment for your disease. If plumbers could get that power it would be a federal crime to change a faucet washer.
Let me simplify all that (can't EDIT):
People with gout are divisible into two generalized categories:
1. Those that control their uric acid to 6.0 mg./dL usually with allopurinol and have no further acute attacks no matter what they eat or drink.
2. Those who do not use drugs and try this that and the other between attacks and then this that and the other to stop the attack until the next one.
It if from group 2 that you wll see all the nostrums, food remedies, and do's and don't.
Both I and GoutPal count ourselves in Group 1. I have not had an acute attack in well over a decade. (I won't say that I wouldn't LIKE to get off daily allpurinol
but I take it faithfully!)At GoutPal Interactive it is all about “sharing” – of experiences, treatment, causes, cures, etc. of Gout. We do recognise the fact that different people do have differences – cultural. racial, physical, preferences, lifestyles, dietry, beliefs, etc………… As the saying goes – “One man's meat is another man's poison”. Of course, in this context it does not go to that extreme. The fact remains that different gout sufferers do have different experiences and a cure/relief/medication may be good for one but not so effective for another. What matters most is that we share unreservedly, honestly and in good faith. We understand the pain, agony and misery caused by gout flare ups and we hope that what has worked for us might be good for fellow gout sufferers too.
As our Admin, Goutpal had made it very clearly that “All gout sufferers want more gout information. Which is most important to you? See what others think, then express your own opinions.”
And that, “You will not get relief from gout by reading a website. But you will get information that helps you make the right gout treatment choices.”
I do share Jack's, and zip2play’s sentiments about doctors, and big drug companies. I fully agree with trev’s –“It's long been said- Docs bury their mistakes; and vegetarianGuy’s –“We are just passing through this world like we pass through our docs office…..”
Goutpal’s – “the world is not perfect” is a reality that we have to come to terms with and accept.
Taking myself as an example. I stand by what I belief and feel is good for me. I came in to share what I thought might also be good for others. I am a strong believer of natural cures because I have little faith in doctors and would avoid drugs at all cost because of their side effects. But, I came with an open mind to share and learn from others. Indeed, I have benefitted a great deal from GoutPal in that I have learnt a lot more about Gout and people. I also begin to understand why people have to be on certain long term medication/drugs – because that’s their choice and they believe it's their best choice.
It has dawned on me that I am really fortunate to be what I am. What I am going through is not that bad after all. So, I am not asking for more and will continue to cherish what I have and to live as healthily and happily as I could until the day of “Burial or cremation?”
What an excellent series of interesting posts.
I'll try and summarize this as there are great lessons to learned.
Or perhaps it's better left “as is” to show the true spirit of the forum without my interpretations?
zip2play said:
People with gout are divisible into two generalized categories:
1. Those that control their uric acid to 6.0 mg./dL usually with allopurinol and have no further acute attacks no matter what they eat or drink.
2. Those who do not use drugs and try this that and the other between attacks and then this that and the other to stop the attack until the next one.
It if from group 2 that you wll see all the nostrums, food remedies, and do's and don't.
Interesting point.
I guess I fall into #2 – but I am new to gout. I have the hope of controlling it by diet and losing weight if possible (currently 232). I am saving the drug option for later if #2 doesnt work out for me. I guess I would like to be an optimist that I have the power to control this myself. I dont think I am the only one out there with this mindset.
There is, perhaps a group 1.5
These are people who attempt to control their gout by lifestyle changes but recognize and work towards the 6mg/dL goal.
Even without medication, there is still a professional role (or better still obligation) for your doctor to work with you and monitor what is happening.
This means uric acid tests at least every 3 months, preferably tracked against weight loss. It also means a clear plan to achieve a BMI of 21 – no mean feat for most of us.
Gradual weight loss is the main thing you can do – 1 or 2 pounds per week. Also look at lowering iron. Finally look at purines, but do not make your life a misery, or you will never stick to it.
All the time – keep hydrated.
You are definitely not alone in being of this mindset. The problem with this mindset, which is encouraged by many health professionals, is that it only makes sense if accompanied by clear goals.
Cloud the issues with purine mumbo-jumbo and groundless alcohol bans and you have the recipe for disaster that probably caused this topic in the first place.
As long as you make uric acid management your first priority, and pain control your second, you have a chance of success. Unfortunately, most doctors do not put enough emphasis on the uric acid priority, so it is up to you to insist.
Getting down from 232 pounds, unless you are a giant, is a huge undertaking. However, if you can see that a few months of progress is giving you uric acid lowering benefits then you will be much more inclined to keep going.
Report your weekly weight loss here – I’m sure I speak for all of us when I say that we will encourage you. And you, in turn, will inspire others.
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