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Hello, I recently found Goutpal and was amazed by its content .? Its the absolute best source of information I have ever found on gout.
However,
I have also found that it is the absolute worst website I have ever seen in terms of a logical layout.? I simply cant make heads or tails of how to find information.? The site is unnavigable.? I've tried several times over the last few weeks, but cant make any sense of how the information is laid out.? Amongst other problems, its almost like my browser is not compatible with the website.? In fact I had the hardest time finding and using this forum.
Is it my browser?? Or is it just confusing by nature?? Is there a simplified version of the website?
Once again, the information I'm reading is the absolute best information available ANYWHERE that I have seen.? I just cant navigate the website.
Can someone offer some advice?? I've been suffering for way too long and I can tell the information is there, but I cant use it.
-John.
John, You are not alone in your thoughts on this. This is a great site just not very user friendly. Theres a lot of gold here but you have to dig for it. Good luck Limpy
This is the world's most user-driven website.
I'm lucky to have some of the absolute best contributors in the world. But I also have some of the worst.
I've just read it again.
floridatrees said:
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found Goutpal and was amazed by its content
the absolute best source of information I have ever found on gout.
Once again, the information I'm reading is the absolute best information available ANYWHERE that I have seen.? I just cant navigate the website.
I can tell the information is there, but I cant use it.-John.
I've found something brilliant but I can't find it ???!!!!
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I need another vacation.
Keith?I know you work very hard at keeping this site up and running. It's something?I couldn't do.?I just don't have computer skills. I'm sure John hit a nerve when he posted about having trouble getting around on Goutpal. After all it's your hard work that makes this site the best place to go for info about Gout.?But?I can see Johns point to. When?I first came back on here after a long break the changes were very confusing. It was like two different sites this side with the black and tan or green header and the other side with the pink and red. And?I did have trouble finding the right place to post questions.?It's like most things though the more you do it the easier it gets. That being said you might want to look at this site thru a new members eyes. It can be a bit confusing and overwelming if your in pain and just looking for help and to get a few questions answered. I want to thank you again for all the help and info on the site.?I for one don't know what?I would have done without it. Limpy
@Limpy: I know there are faults, and if someone asks for specific help on a problem, making it clear what and where the problem is, I will move heaven and earth to fix the issue. Most of my rantings below refer to the original message. It is so bad that I should have just deleted it. However, I hate censorship, so I'm grateful that you are pushing this discussion in the right direction. Please be aware that I'm mainly addressing the issues raised by the original message, but I'm also trying to include the specific issues raised by you.
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@all: I expect new members to read the guidelines. I ask for it at the top of each forum page, and in my sig after each message. Ignore it at your peril, as the best anyone can expect for nonsensical or disrespectful posting is to be ignored. The worst is ridicule and humiliation.
My ridiculous comments to ridiculous messages often attract personal criticism. It is almost always by people who cannot accept that this forum is not a platform for outrageous views, greedy self-promotion, or time-wasting questions. I show the same lack of respect to others as they show me, but the ones who don't like it are usually the ones who do not understand respect.
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@Limpy: please note I am not accusing you of this, but I would like to address the additional points you have raised. I appreciate that you take this seriously – probably more seriously than the original contributor.John has not hit a nerve, though I am frustrated at not being able to help better, as I do not know specifically what is wrong, and I do not know what he expects, or anything about his background or gout issues. Members arrive here from many different directions, with many different abilities, many different experiences, and many different expectations. I simply cannot look at the site as a new member would. I totally rely on members clearly reporting issues.
As I become aware of problems, I fix them. Everyone should be aware that this forum is changing completely. That will fix many issues, but I do not know if the original message relates? to this forum, or even this website. Your references to “black and tan or green header and the other side with the pink and red” have left me even more confused.
This is not a criticism of you, Limpy, but I like to answer specific questions and also make my answers useful to other people who may have similar questions.
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@all: The starting question needs to be very specific and personal, so I can answer that directly, and also add my thoughts on similar issues that are commonly related.
The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that those of us who can be bothered to listen to sensible contributions, and respond appropriately, make real differences to gout sufferers lives. I know this to be true, so I cannot accept this to be the worst website in the world. Having said that, I am perfectly happy to discuss any and all weaknesses, but claiming the site is unusable and claiming the information is the best in the same message is absolute nonsense.
Perhaps the real problem is that some people are so shocked by the amount of good information, and so awed by the selfless support from great contributors, that they forget how to function as real human beings. I am not God. I am not all-knowing. I cannot read minds. I can only react to the words in the message, so make your meaning clear.
I recommend that all contributors read their messages aloud before posting them, and imagine they are conversing with someone who they respect. Try this now, with the post that started this topic. Apparently, I've provided amazing information, but I'm not allowed to know what it is. My information is the best source, but I'm not allowed to know what the comparison is with. I provide the worst layout of all websites, but I'm not allowed to know what is a good layout. The site is unnavigable, but I'm not allowed to know how it managed to provide such amazing information. The browser is suspect, but I'm not allowed to know which browser or operating system is being used. Need I go on?
“The absolute best, yet the absolute worst. Please help!” is not a question that can be answered. “Can you help me find relevant information on [insert your gout issue]?” is a good question, and needs to be followed by a summary of experiences and expectations, with links to specific pages where relevant.
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I love this project. It was my first choice when I decided to live my life as if I had won the lottery. I.e., I questioned how I would live my life if money was not an issue. Providing support for gout sufferers was high on my list. I decided I must ensure that GoutPal continues to improve, and I must find ways to be able to afford that, and the other things I see as priorities for my time.
I guess my passion can sometimes come across as a knee-jerk reaction to criticism, but that is not true. I yearn criticism, but it should be given respectfully, clearly, and precisely. Constructive criticism is even nicer, and I will be launching a reward scheme to encourage this fairly soon.
It would help enormously if contributors would take a little more responsibility for their own health issues. Do not blame doctors, governments, pharmaceutical companies, food industries, or my screen layouts for your health problems. Learn to ask the right questions and take control of your own gout.
Keith, without trying to be critical or judgmental, please, let me say this:
Save your precious time and energy for the good “apples” in your basket and throw the one or two bad ones out before they affect the good “apples”. Remember, you got over 1500 in your basket who have successfully navigated your forums for over 5 years or so, including Gouties from all over the world who were/are not fluent in the English language.
Your time is better spent on people, like Limpy, who respect you and your efforts.
If there is/was a problem, you have generally remedied it within very reasonable time.
floridatrees said:
Hello, I recently found Goutpal and was amazed by its content .? Its the absolute best source of information I have ever found on gout.
1) …? I simply cant make heads or tails of how to find information.
2) …Is it my browser?
3) … I can tell the information is there, but I cant use it.
4) …Can someone offer some advice?
-John.
Ad 1) If you don't have a head and a tail, how in hell did you find Goutpal with its amazing content and being the absolute best source of info on gout you EVER found?
Ad 2) Yes, John, it IS your browser=brain
Ad 3) The best information in the world is useless, unless you have the right browser or brain to understand and? deal with the info.
Ad 4) Get a NEW browser!
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John, if my comments pissed you off, please, don't waste it! Have it checked to see how much uric acid was in your urine. It may be an indicator how bad your GOUT PROBLEM is. However, confidentially, there are better and more accurate methods to determine the severity of your gout, like someone sticking the needle into your arm and sucking the blood out of you or better, yet, sticking it into your knee and sucking some fluid out of it.
Why is everyone jumping all over floridatrees? They weren?t being malicious, just conveying their feelings. I have had some issue with navigation, just never expressed it. It doesn?t mean I am not thankful for this site. Some of us aren?t as savvy nor technical when it comes to these things.
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Aren?t we all here with a ?common cause? A very painful and frustrating health issue? Shouldn?t we be trying to help each other instead of getting upset with someone for being honest with the way they are feeling. I read nothing mean spirited at all in their post.
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There are enough websites out there with people just waiting to pounce on others, I was hoping this one could be different.
Eric, I think you need to read all this again. Best read it aloud to an impartial friend, but if not, just read it anyway, and think about what is being said.
eric ryan said:
Why is everyone jumping all over floridatrees? They weren?t being malicious, just conveying their feelings.
I do not think anyone has accused floridatrees of being malicious. I accused them of being disrespectful in the nicest way I could, because it is important to me that people read the guidelines, and not come here wasting time.
I have had some issue with navigation, just never expressed it. It doesn?t mean I am not thankful for this site. Some of us aren?t as savvy nor technical when it comes to these things.
?But if you do not share the issues, how can I make things better? I do not expect anyone to require anything other than a fair-minded attitude to contribute here. You should not need any special technical skills other than the usual browser to navigate my websites, just as you would navigate around any website. It is unfair to me to claim in public that there are problems using my websites without telling me what they are. I do not expect a technical analysis if there is a problem, but a short note in public or private would be nice – something along the lines of “the information on page [insert link here] was good, but I could not … [insert whatever issue you have]”
Aren?t we all here with a ?common cause? A very painful and frustrating health issue?
Yes we are, and that includes being clear about your problems. Though this topic is about technical issues, the same principals apply to health issues. If you do not make it clear what the issue is, and how it applies to you, preferably with some history and expectations, then you create more frustration. As I mentioned, I usually ignore people who make no effort to play a contributing role, but as this forum gets replaced by another, I'd like to encourage some better habits. Good questions make a real contribution to the lives of gout sufferers in similar situations who cannot or dare not speak out. Everyone should strive to make their questions as answerable as they can. Opinions should be backed by facts, or at least clearly marked as personal opinions.
Shouldn?t we be trying to help each other instead of getting upset with someone for being honest with the way they are feeling. I read nothing mean spirited at all in their post.
?In my opinion, it is mean spirited to use this forum to complain without details. It wastes time for all readers, and it puts me in a very bad position. How would you feel if a stranger came up to you in the street and said you were the worst he'd ever seen? Would you want to know why?
There are enough websites out there with people just waiting to pounce on others, I was hoping this one could be different.
Eric, this site IS very different. It's primary purpose is not even to offer individual help, but when that help comes, it is the best anywhere. There is not one site, there are two. This is a support site for gout sufferers, but it is mainly a support site for GoutPal.com. That website contains all the information that any gout sufferer needs to fix their gout. It is free. It is updated regularly. However, it is not perfect. Just like this support site, it is developing into a much better, easier to navigate, resource. I need people to help me make that resource even better. I do not need people wasting my time, and that of others, by posting messages that cannot be answered and make no contribution.
People are not here waiting to pounce on others, and if anyone reports such behavior to me, I will remove them.
Both limpy and hansinnm have made positive contributions that seek to improve this topic. However, I still see little coming out of it that adds any real value, and your latest message does not change this.
Has noone any real issues to report properly, or nothing positive to add about how to report problems?
Somebody said it better.
It isn't here because it's British – it was given to me by an American friend with soul. It isn't here because it addresses all the points raised.
It's here because it shines a light on the issues raised here, and adds many new dimensions.
Oh yeah, just what we all need: Steven Fry talking down to us like little children on how to live our lives. I can't believe people are so impressed by this self appointed font of all knowledge. He is quiz show host who went to Cambridge,? now cashing in on the celebrity circuit of interchangeble front men for general interest programming: SF goes to America, SF does various nature programmes, SF explains Science to all of us thick people etc. If he was really as bright as he would have us believe, he would be a Nobel prize winning something or a captain of industry – not a media whore endlessly recycling his therapy sessions online as inate wisdom.
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He was quite good in Blackadder though.
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I can see your point odo, but this topic doesn't really address people like yourself who take responsibility for their own lives.
Whereas you might see a problem with your health, look for relevant information, sift out the rubbish, and ask pertinent questions, others take a completely different approach.
They assume that people who contribute here, especially myself, are going to give them a recipe for a gout-free life without any effort on their part.
Personally, I like Fry. I like his humour (definitely with a u), and I like much of what he says. Occasionally he goes over the top and occasionally he is just plain wrong. However, I believe his ubiquity is as much to do with his talents as it is to do with his drive to cash in on his celebrity status. Fortunately, unless you are physically in his company, he comes with an off button.
The most pertinent point of this video was telling the whiners and whingers to shut up. I'd just like to tell them to stop posting here, but I would much rather they turn the whinging into constructive criticism so we can all make our gout resources better.
Keith, I agree with you and most of the things the guy is saying. I don't know him, however, that is not important. While you and others are more diplomatic about or with criticism, I just don't have neither the time left nor the patience to cuddle someone who is supposed have some brains left and drink when some water is handed out.
I am not trying to punish anyone. I do care, that's why I am responding.
hansinnm said:
I am not trying to punish anyone. I do care, that's why I am responding.
I know you do Hans. Out of all the crap in this thread (much of it from me), your 2nd post of Nov 4th is the only one with any practical advice. There's no smiley for applause, so imagine :clap:
Keith (Gout Admin) said:
I can see your point odo, but this topic doesn't really address people like yourself who take responsibility for their own lives.
Whereas you might see a problem with your health, look for relevant information, sift out the rubbish, and ask pertinent questions, others take a completely different approach.
They assume that people who contribute here, especially myself, are going to give them a recipe for a gout-free life without any effort on their part.
Personally, I like Fry. I like his humour (definitely with a u), and I like much of what he says. Occasionally he goes over the top and occasionally he is just plain wrong. However, I believe his ubiquity is as much to do with his talents as it is to do with his drive to cash in on his celebrity status. Fortunately, unless you are physically in his company, he comes with an off button.
The most pertinent point of this video was telling the whiners and whingers to shut up. I'd just like to tell them to stop posting here, but I would much rather they turn the whinging into constructive criticism so we can all make our gout resources better.
Quite so, Keith, and apologies for the off topic rant; it's just that SF is one of my pet peeves at the moment & I couldn't resist the opportunity to vent (can't even claim the excuse of being in flare up-o delicto)
I secretly watch QI as well, I'm afraid
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