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Peter Cameron said:
I'll have a go – at the photograph first.
Yeah, would someone, please, be so kind and show us, ME, slightly disadvantaged, how to post a photo?
trev said:
Hans- Thanks for the thumbs up- but I have much to learn every day. Is that the secret?
You are not the only one who has much to learn. I am surprised the ship hasn't sunk, yet. You got about 3 billion guys in the same boat with you.
Warlocks of the world unite- you have nothing to lose but your Gout.
Forget about them guys. They never made it past “Use of the stick=broom” 101.
trev said:
…
Most gouties are older men- they are not renowned for looking after their own diet and health care. I 've noticed that women posting here and elsewhere are much more prepared to look at more labour intensive natural solutions than many men.
So men are their own worst enemies in their traditional behaviour and indeed pay a heavy price for this in gout!
Trevor, What makes YOU such a wise man? GOUT???
Now I know why I picked you as one of the Three Wise Men on this forum.
ouch said:
… I didin't need to be made to feel stupid, or were you trying to make a joke?
ouch.
My dear Ouch,
Here is a belated pill to ease your ouch.
The vast majority of the people on this forum are gouties. And to ease the pain (even it is only in our minds) we make jokes, some funny, some crude, some not so funny, but jokes, nevertheless. I assure you, no one, particularly the knowledgeable contributors on this forum would ever think of making another co-suffering goutie feel stupid.
zip2play said:
Okay pigeon, whenever you get around to it a good approach might be to measure your uric acid after a day oif normal to light eating, then have another day of lighter eating and add to it 10 cans of brew.
Measure uric acid the next day and compare the two. We will be able to point to your exemplary experimental work the every time the topic comes up.
Perhaps submit your results to JAMA. (I've seen less substantial reporting.
)The reasoon I said eat light is that for D-Day you are adding about 1600 extra calories and it won't FIT with heavy eating.
Here we go, zip2play. I am starting a new topic: Uric Acid levels, Diet, Beer – Your Guinea Pig Pigeon test
phofab said:
Post edited 3:56 pm – February 7, 2010 by GoutPal
Epsom Salts baths
…Epsom Salts – Magnesium Sulphate,
…
The Tophi on my toe occasionally chooses this soaking time,as the time to erupt and discharge a little. The salts have a drawing effect on the tophi.
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I purchase 5kg bags of the salts from a garden – pet care centre. They are used for the health of horses, medical purposes and have uses in the gardens. 5 kgs cost A$12.-.
…
David
Another quaint home remedy from the colonial “down under”.
Just a confirmation to photab's comment:
I do my Epsom Salt baths while sweating my balls off in the dry sauna. Observed the same/similar effects as David.
I found K-Mart the best source. 4 lbs/1.81 kg for US$3.23 (12#/5.43 kg = US$9.69[tax incl.]) I only tried Walmart once. (No good)
I do bandage the open spots on my toe/foot using Povidone-Iodine Ointment 10% (antibiotic/antiseptic ointment) to prevent infection. (Was recommended by my Podiatrist who operated on my left foot 1 1/2 years ago when the gout/tophus open spot got infected on a sailing/camping trip.
)NateA said:
Post edited 4:19 pm – January 30, 2010 by NateA
I love it here, man. Where are you at now? Are you from Deutschland? …
Are you from Deutschland? Yes, I am, from Trier, the wine capital of Germany.
Where are you at now? I, now, live in New Mexico (for the last 14 years) and I DO love where I live, I just don't care for the people and their politics.
zip2play said:
Post edited 6:11 pm – January 29, 2010 by zip2play
…dry steam heat. …
Zip, YOU, with a pretty good record on being right on bull's eye, got me baffled. Where on earth can one find hot water (steam) that isn't WET but DRY???
NateA said:
…
Yes, it sucks living in Germany, the land of sausage and beer, and having to abstain from a couple of things that the Germans actually get right, …
Well, thank you Nate. I knew, we got a couple of things actually right. I wished I was back in your shoes again.
That's OK, Metamorph. Do I know about “occupational hazard”? You bet!. Just hang in there till you get to be my age or before and and hopefully you regain your humor way earlier than I did.
Thank you, Trev. I'll follow up on your suggestion. Had a problem, though, trying to print their pages.
metamorph said:
hansinnm said:
……You could be looked upon as year-around Santa Claus, and several others, like, zip2play, bev, metamorph, phofab, Utubelite, thaijim as one of your rein-deer…..
I am definitely not one of the reindeers. I am just hitching a ride on GP's sled and dishing out black bean broth to whoever needs it.
metamorph
Hey, you guys, if you aren't the rein-deers, who in hell is going to pull GP's sled?
He has his hands full of just controlling it. Thank you GP for your detailed response.
Oh blissful(?) , painful (!) IGNORANCE!!!
Why didn't I stay in my cave and keep on hibernating, just twitching my gouty joints in my dreams???Keith, the answers you gave me were exactly the reason I asked my questions. I was already confused before, but each time I tried to learn more about pH, alkalizing, good/bad pH, etc., I wound up turning the puter off and saying words most people would not want to hear. (But they did keep my BP down since they work pretty well as relief valves.)
Now, with regard to negative pH (>7-14), I had been working on that when I started with the Ca Bentonite (See earlier posts.) Since it has a pH of ~9.5 its ingestion will have an impact on the body/blood/stomach,/urine pH, except, I don't know to what extent on each of them. Not having controlled/measured/researched/logged any pH values before, I don't have the foggiest idea where that leaves me.
I do tend to believe the statements that a body pH of 7.4 or so is the healthier one than any pH <7 where illnesses can and will dominate the body. We have so many sick people here in the States because of the food which the big (and small) food giants push down our throat, mostly acidic, and all the chemicals they add (for whatever reason) vastly contributes to that problem.
Thaijim said:…
Now in search of PH paper… I suspect one of the pharmacies will have it…
Jim, follow Juliana's advice, I did: Google “energise pH test strips” and you'll spend the next 3 hours reading, getting smarter by the minute and at the end you'll what to get, or will be totally confused what to get where.
GP, you just added an other day to my life. Thanks for the laugh you gave me. I am referring to your post which follows this one (I just made use of the empty post from yesterday, since I didn't know how to get rid of it.
zip2play said:
… and add to it 10 cans of brew.
…
Zip, I don't think I can measure up to your expectation. Even when I belonged to one of those beer-drinking fraternities in Germany (for barely 6 months b/4 I had it up to here) was I able to drink that much. 10 cans/bottles is about one gallon and that is beyond my belly's capacity. I am only 5-8 and 165#'s.
trev said:
Yes Zip!, we need a volunteer with a UAsure or Kernel to do some tests,- before and after.
…
Guys, you have a pigeon. I got a UAsure and, as you know, I also brew (>28 years) my own beer (not from scratch, but buying the malt) and make my own wine (>7 years, using kits) and make mead (>5 years, from 1/2% to 7%.) However, you got to hold your horses for a little while till my dog Hunzee gets the herd of rather unruly beasts under control.
I still am not certain, am not convinced, am not informed enough about the true effects, relationships, involvement of alcohol, purines in beer, various beer yeasts, sugars (like cane sugar vs. corn sugar) and other chemicals in beer and/or wine.
Facts: As I also have said before, I was raised on alcohol, beer, hard cider, and wine. No hard liquor, even though my dad made Schnapps (generally around 102 proof=51%) Only had sips, was to potent for me THEN. Didn't get into hard liquor until I got to the States (at 26): Brandy, gin, whiskey, rum, and liqueurs (B&B, Amaretto, Benedictine) basically. In later years (30 some years ago) vodka and tequila was added to my staple.
Now, with these facts pointed out, I have lived until 1984 (I was >53 years old/young or whatever) till the first gout attack hit me (after I kicked my right big toe on a rock while camping and dropped a box on the same foot during that trip.) Since then I have had an attack every 14-16 months regularly for more than 15 years when they started to become more frequent, even though I was on meds. (Colchicine, Probenecid, and 1x on Allopurinol) My UA levels were generally around 8-10, except after being on Probenecid for 9 months (down to 4.4)
During all those years (>25 years) I drank all that stuff I mentioned earlier. ( I DID keep it under control, since I liked it too much to become an alcoholic. I just remained a booze hound) I kept on eating steaks, like porterhouse, NY steaks, fillet Mignon, till they became too expensive for my taste (that is my pocket book); never the less, I kept on eating red meat, slightly less red meat(like pork, and chicken,) and fish like trout (used to catch them myself when I lived in OR and WA), salmon, herring, all that good stuff which makes life worth living. I even had the arrogance to tell my doctors that I wasn't going to change my life style just to prove them right. Besides, they didn't know what they were doing, just guessing And, rather than letting them using me as a guinea pig, I preferred to do it myself.
Duck soup! Boy, was I successful! To the point that Mother Nature got envious of me and said: “That's IT” I am going to make you work for your living ( what you called: life worth living.) And I have been working for it, actually, more slaving for it than I bargained for. I still am!!!Is anybody out there who envies me? Have at it! Or pities me? Don't!!! What ever you do, DON'T follow my foot steps.
Hans in New Mexico, happily retired, unhappily living from day to day, rat now.
bearhunter said:
How about this……
I have a small hunting and fishing lodge, ( 7 hours north of Toronto ) can cook up a storm and would be happy to host the very first International Gout Suffers Forum ….
Send Santa Claus to pick me and my boat up and take me to your lodge. I'll bring the home brew and home-made wine.
GoutPal said:
A massive thank you to Hans for starting this topic,…
GotPal, now , YOU did to me.
And, I am NOT ashamed of it. It clears the sight of my eyes.Even though I don't believe in a god, and whatever goes with it (but that is another story, not to be discussed here) I wish to cite an endearment for millions around the globe that might well fit you and several people on this forum:
You could be looked upon as year-around Santa Claus, and several others, like, zip2play, bev, metamorph, phofab, Utubelite, thaijim as one of your rein-deer.
They have been pulling your sled(forum) and dropping off your and their little gift packages(advice, encouragement, admonishments, etc.) at children's(gout suffers' homes,) regardless of time, effort and personal inconveniences( like gout flares, gout attacks, gout twinges, etc.)
trev said:
…
My favourite 'beef' is big Pharma grabbing the reins in many ways with their big Biz approach to health.
…
Trev, you got it right. I agree 100%. As I had said in one of my first postings: Between the Pharma, the crooked politicians in their pocket, and gov't branches like the FDA, e.g. under their control, and the greedy lawyers, the average American is more than just between a stone and a hard rock, he/she doesn't stand a chance. That's the way I see it.
trev said:
Post edited 9:09 pm – January 25, 2010 by trev
…
The medics mostly go into the job as a calling- it's not something everyone would, or could do well – if at all. Certainly, it takes a lot of 'doing' over a lifetime, to heal others.
…
Trev, if you don't mind, I beg to differ from you. 30, 40, 50, 100 years ago, perhaps and probably. But today, particularly here, in these United States of America, I dare claim that 90-95% pick that job to make easy money, make lots of it, and make it fast. And if it wasn't for the crooked judicial system, they would make even more. I may be a cynic, but I think I see the reality clearer (as a non-born American) than most Americans care to do and care to admit.
GoutPal said:
phofab said:
I suspect the the Drug Companies had come up with some research and could see a marketing angle.
Marketing angle! Hmm…
GoutPal, you keep this ad for that company in the UK and your commission up and I'll report you to the BBB. Oh, I forgot: You guys don't have a BBB. That's only us guys here in the US of A, and I am not quite sure if their employees' salaries aren't paid by the big Pharmas.
PS: BBB DOES NOT stand for Black Bean Broth but for Better Business Bureau (for those who aren't familiar with the term BBB here in the US of A.)
cjeezy said:
Hansinnm, how long has your BP been in that range? …
About 8-9 years. I got records going back to 1996. I used to take my BP 4x a day: In the AM when I got up, b/4 sauna in the PM and after sauna, and b/4 going to bed. Between 1996 and 2000 my BP was around 130,135/70,75 and after that it has been around 150,160/80/85. I got a divorce in 1998/99 and I don't know if or to what extent it had a bearing or just my life style as a single person.
I agree with phofab’s comment.
That’s why my doctor (unfortunately retired) never paid any attention to my BP, taken when I first came into the clinic. As a matter of fact, he even explained why not.
Then things changed (summer of 2006) when his younger replacement (about 25-30 years
phofab said:
Post edited 12:43 am – January 22, 2010 by phofab
cjeezy said:
I'm kinda just discouraged right now but I just wanted to know if any of those on BP medicine could offer some advioce on what to take and not what to take. Appreciate any comments
The BP reading could be due to “White Coat Syndrome”, very common.
fatdom said:
Hello All,
…
Also have tried colchicine (didn't work) and am trying Naproxen today to attempt to alleviate the symptoms.
…
Dominic.
Dominic, if my memory serves me right, then Naproxen won't do anything to act on your gout. It's supposed to alleviate your pain caused by the inflammation of your joints/tissues (which is/was caused by your gout=uric acid crystal formation.) And, if I am not mistaken, Aleve is a cheaper version of Naproxen. (This is what doctors told me.)
For gout you need medication like Allopurinol, Colchicine, Probenecid, and a few others. However, a physician should make the decision (after appropriate tests) which one to take and at what strength.
zip2play said:
I am confused Hans. Why not Medicare at age 79? Part A is free and Part B is $96/month. …but I am lucky since I have tens of thousands of practitioners withing 10 miles <NYC.> )
I understand your confusion, Zip. To fully explain (not to excuse myself) would go beyond the scope and purpose of this forum. Just let me tell you that the screwings I got from my medical providers (like being kicked out), including the various HMO's , Lovelace, Presbyterian, and the University of NM, especially after my doctor for ~10 years retired, prompted me to opt out.
And I don't have tens of thousands of practitioners withing 10 miles.
zip2play said:
Post edited 3:48 pm – January 11, 2010 by zip2play
Hans, that SCREW YOU MEDICAL CENTER sounds like a very good reason NOT to live in NM.
I do agree with you, Zip, however, the 300+ days of sunshine and the pure air at ~6000 feet and, above all, my little lake, essential for my sailing and living in this godforsaken world/country, keeps me here in New Mexico.
I'm confused about your insurance. Are you OLD enough to get Medicare (and a citizen), if so you should immediately. If you really want to slash your costs, then get into a Medicare Advantage Plan and all you'll pay is a $10 or $15 copay no matter WHAT they do. Only wrinkle is that you must be in a populaous enough area so that there are several medical professionals to choose from who take any particular plan.
I ain't gotten any insurance, and I am a citizen, old enough at 79 to get Medicare and I am about 100 miles round trip away from any populous enough area.
On that doctor's inability to prescribe probenecid it is not that he CANNOT it is that he WILL NOT. ANy doctor can prescribe ANY medication, thus a dermatologist can prescribe chemotherapy for brain cancer. Your doctor is what is described in very medical terms, a PRICK. He is interested only in running up charges.
Zip, there are things here in these United States of America that you may not be aware of, like: Who can prescribe what. Example (fact) in case: A friend of mine died a year ago of skin cancer in his face (after several thousands of $'s for doctors' fees, medications, trips and hotel bills.) Between hospital radiation and chemo he went to a Texas clinic where they used a drug which was not sanctioned by the FDA for skin cancer. It was sanctioned for two other internal cancers (I forgot the names.) That clinic disregarded the FDA rules and charged 100k's $ for treatments. He did not want to pay/have that kind of money, so he and his wife came back home to NM. All the doctors here, with whom he consulted or treated him, refused to prescribe that particular medication because of that FDA rule and since they did not want to lose their license. He took his chemo and then died 3-4 months later under horrible pains. NO Medicare, NO doctors, NO treatment, NO money could save his life because of FDA.
There is a logic though in testing urine for 24 hours before dosing with probenecid. If your urinary output of urate is greater than normal, probenecid won't be the drug of choice. But still there's no reason that it won't work fine, just not as well as somebody with low excretion.
But get another doctor. STAT.
Who, what doctor??? All we got left are highly (overpaid) pill pushers of/for the pharmaceutical industry who is not interested in healing people, but to keep them alive so long/as long as there is any money to be extorted from them or their insurance companies, especially Medicare.
(What kind of insurance do you have now?) As said b/4: NONE.
…
hansinnm said:
Post edited 6:17 pm – January 6, 2010 by hansinnm
…
Well, since I didn't have Zip8Play around to borrow from, I borrowed a few colchicines (~30) from my friend Terry who has oodles (he got a good NM state insurance) until I see my doctor on Friday for some Probenecids (Benuryl in Canada.)
…
And here are the results:
1) 12/26/09 SUA: 8.2 mg/dl
2) 01/02/10 ” : 7.2 ”
3) 12/6/09 to now: reduction of swelling of right foot
4) 12/29/09: Increased pain in both feet ankles
and both knees (now gone)5) 12/30/09 – 1/2/10: In bed for three days. Excruciating pain
(like tourniquets around my ankles of both feet) Only transportation on CRUTCHES (still today) Pain is manageable now (took 1 Naproxen at height of pain)…
I'll report later, after I had a chance to experience the effects of Probenecid.
Hans in sunny New Mexico
Here is my first report:
Leave it to the “caring” American medical profession and the medical arm of the United States of America , called: FDA.
I saw the one and only doctor I had trust and confidence in seeing on Friday, Jan.8, 2010 with 4 questions on my mind. Guess what: He is a podiatrist who operated on my gouty/infected foot 1 1/2 years ago. He CANNOT prescribe for me PROBENECID. Only an intern medical doctor can do this, but only after he has done tests on my kidney, my urine, and my blood. (Never mind that my former doctor, a now retired university professor who had it already prescribed for me and I had taken it for a total of 12 months.)
The only advice I got over and over again was that I should get my SS Medicare, so that they can charge me more than they charge someone who pays with cash. “They” is a business group of Northern New Mexico Orthopedic Center, PC to which he, now, belongs and who sets the rates for everything.
For $150 per visit (less 25% since I paid in cash) = $112, I got the following merchandise/service:
1) Approximately 5-6 minutes of the doctor's time. (His opening statement after shaking hands: We cannot chat. I don”t have much time if any.)
2) No, I can't prescribe Probenecid. (See above) He did prescribe 90 cochicines, though.
3) No, I can't operate on your toe here. You must be an out patient in a hospital (2 choices)
4) “Get your SS Medicare.” ( I did not ask foe that advise.)
5) He DID squeeze the living daylight out my two big toes which were open and uric acid in some kind of a liquid was oozing out and put an anti-biotic ointment on them and a purple bandage on one and a blue one on the other toe/foot. That was the ONLY worthwhile service I really got.
6) He was out the door without saying good-bye after I refused to have an X-ray taken. ( I had not yet have a chance to ask all of my 4 questions.) So I waited outside the examination room to get one more question in between his other patients. Yes, he could have a blood test for SUA done (and they run about $350 -$400, but he has no trust in lab tests. Yes, the SUA value is of some importance, but there are more important matters to consider. (I never found out what they are, though.)
Now to a more positive part of my follow-up report:
1) 12/26/09 SUA: 8.2 mg/dl
2) 01/02/10 ” : 7.2 ”
3) 01/09/10 ” : 6.8 ”
While the level did not go down as much as the week before, it DID go down. I am cutting further down on alcohol and other high-purine foods.
I am also continuing doctoring my two feet and while I still have some pain (bearable) I now can walk without crutches again.
This is all for now. Hope to see/report to you again (hopefully positively) in a week again.
Hans (in New Mexico, very disappointed in my only doctor and grateful for GoutPal's existence)
