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zip2play said:
…Thinking about throwing out a LOT of detritus (gosh 1,000 LP's
.)
Since YOU have conquered GOUT, YOU have a nother 1000 years to live. Buy an ION LP to CD converter and sell your oldies to a collectors' store. I have done it, but luckily only converted ~15 or so. I can't afford to spend MY alotted “afterlife” on converting LP's.
zip2play said:
Post edited 2:48 pm – September 26, 2010 by zip2play
…
Keith showed that fancy new scan (forget the name) that showed urate in a man's gouty foot and the deposits seemed to be EVERYWHERE….
It's called SOMATOM Definition Flash which is a dual-source CT from Siemens (Germany), also known as DECT= Dual Energy Computed Tomography.
zip2play said:
…
So I agree that light pilsners or even the lighter LITE beers, which to me taste like high priced seltzer water and thus not for me, are probably far less likely to trigger gout….
At least Seltzer water has a “spritz” to it, while American beers (I am not talking about micro brews) are nothing but colored waters, and yeah, as such too damn expensive.
If one wants to consume a cheaper, probably less likely, gout trigger, distill your own water and attach a CO2 cartridge.
zip2play said:
Post edited 1:12 pm – September 20, 2010 by zip2play
… I was surprised I had to do jump through all those hoops.
…
I guess I now have a clue why Yahoo's stock is tanking.
This is ONE subject/issue I do agree with you 100%. Funny thing, I had the same thought: Goddamn, they sure make me jump through zillions of hoops.
(When wanted to drop out of a group. I still am not out.)rdavisiii said:
… There are other options if Prednisone is not working out for you but they all come with some sort of side effects.
One of the other options is 1-2 0.6mg Colchicine, only, to fight the inflammation, if the pain is tolerable and 1-2 500mg Naproxen (Aleve) to fight unbearable pain.
zip2play said:
… propgylaxis. …
Zip, to keep me on the straight and narrow, you got to narrowly straighten me out:
Are you talking about a proper Galaxy or taxis running on propylene glycol ???
Goutgal said:
Hi Limpy. My thoughts are that I'm glad you asked this question. My first attack was February 2010. I've been on 100mg Allo since then, and UA varies between 4.9 and 5.1. I'm on and off Colc, mostly off. But I have always wondered if I should stay on it. My toes ache most days, but bearable. This week my ankles started hurting and my left ankle swells by the end of the day, most days. I started back on Colc last week, 0.6 twice/day and was thinking I'd ask this same question. Thanks for whatever others may suggest.
Goutgal, good for you to stay off Colchicine when you don't really need it. Remember, our body/metabolism has plenty to on its “hands” to fight against or off all the other CHEMICALS which are shoved down our throats in form of MEDICINES, VITAMINS, FOOD, AND DRINKS.
My take on your aches, pains, swellings is that with your relative low SUA level, your body is getting rid off the extra UA, and as we now know, it is generally accompanied by minor (in some cases major) gout attacks and/or twinges.
limpy said:
Hans,the last acid numbers were 5.5 and 5.7 LIMPY
Thanks, Limpy.
I went back to your original comment, 0/4/10, and I must say that it is irresponsible (in MY book) for your doctor to put you on Colchicine for 8-10 months when your SUA level is in the mid 5 and you are not having an attack with ensuing inflammation and pain. Apparently you are not dealing with a doctor=physician=healer, you are dealing with a medicine industry pill pusher. I betcha every penny I got that he would not do it to himself.
Bear in mind that Allopurinol and Uloric (to be taken for life) are the ONLY meds which deal with the CAUSE of gout. Colchicine and the thousands of other meds generally deal with the SYMPTONS of a disease/condition which is a beloved feature(or requirement) for or of being pill pusher. Just consider the FACT that Allopurinol was the ONLY med for combating gout for almost forty years before Uloric appeared, and that even came from Japan, not the medical pill producing/pushing industry in these United States of America.
metamorph said:
Post edited 3:48 am – September 6, 2010 by metamorph
…
Reflecting on how my gout started, I think my gout could have been caused by the low dosage of aspirin which I had been taking on and off in the past. …
With regards to food, I am still taking chicken and fish almost everyday and am not getting any gout twinges at all. …
“low dosage of aspirin“, Metamorph, here is one for you (I have mentioned it somewhere in the past): Way back (12-13 years ago), my GP, a professor of medicine at UNM, put me on baby aspirin and recommended Atkins diet even though he knew that I had gout (by then 12-13 years.) I, also, took myself off aspirin after I found out that aspirin and gout were sleeping together.
I, too, am still eating chicken and fish, but only once a week and relative (for me) small portions and I allow myself a glass or two of wine with dinner (no beer or hard stuff.) So far so good. Had a couple of minor twinges since I started Uloric, however, I am not too concerned. What bothers me, though, is the fact that my doctor won't increase the dosis to 80mg. I have a tremendous PR job ahead of me when I see her, on Sept.15. And PR was never my strong side.
limpy said:
…They all said my numbers are right where they want them to be. … I just don't want to bring on another attack by stopping the Colchicine. Thanks. LIMPY
Limpy, what ARE your numbers? And what do THEY consider THE RIGHT NUMBERS?
Since you did not take me up on my suggestion, so here it is:
What Causes Gout?
A number of risk factors are related to the development of hyperuricemia and gout:
Genetics may play a role in determining a person's risk, since up to 18% of people with gout have a family history of the disease.
Gender and age are related to the risk of developing gout; it is more common in men than in women and more common in adults than in children.
Being overweight increases the risk of gout because there is more tissue available for turnover or breakdown, which leads to excess uric acid production.
Drinking too much alcohol can lead to hyperuricemia because it interferes with the removal of uric acid from the body.
Eating too many foods rich in purines can cause or aggravate gout in some people.
An enzyme defect that interferes with the way the body breaks down purines causes gout in a small number of people, many of whom have a family history of gout.
Exposure to lead in the environment can cause gout.
Some people who take certain medicines or have certain conditions are at risk for having high levels of uric acid in their body fluids.Gout Risk Factors
Some Medicines
The following types of drugs can lead to hyperuricemia because they reduce the body's ability to remove uric acid:
diuretics (taken to eliminate excess fluid from the body)
salicylates (or anti-inflammatory drugs made from salicylic acid, such as aspirin)
the vitamin niacin (also called nicotinic acid)
cyclosporine (an immunosuppressant)
Levodopa (used to treat Parkinson's disease)As I said before, Colchicine , or lack thereof, does NOT cause or prevent an attack. It deals with the consequences: Inflammation
limpy said:
…My Rhumatologist told me I'd be on Colchicine for 8 to 10 months as a preventive from attacks. I'd like to get off them sooner but I don't wont to risk another attack. Thoughts anyone ? Thanks. LIMPY
Limpy, I dare to disagree with your rheumatologist. Colchicine does neither start nor stop a gout attack. Remember: A gout attack is the result of too much UA in your blood/system. Colchicine does NOT affect your UA level in your body. What does is ALLOPURINOL or ULORIC. So go with Zip's advice and up your Allo dosis to 300 mg.
All Colchicine does is affect (reduce) your inflammation, the result of your gout attack. The chemistry and the consequential results of Allopurinol/Uloric, Colchicine, and Naproxen/Aleve (the painkillers) are entirely different for each of the three groups. (Zip can give you the details, if he so desires. I am too lazy to dig it up. Or maybe YOU can dig it up yourself. Just Google the individual meds.)
GoutPal said:
Wise words indeed, odo
Uric acid crystals tend to grow very slowly, and often go unnoticed. Unfortunately, without uric acid control, they will reach a level where:
- Acute gout flares become more frequent and more intense.
- Permanent damage to bones, ligaments & tendons from the corrosive effects of gouty tophi.
And this happens later in life when one is less able to cope.
Any form of gout treatment, whether medical, herbal, or dietary, MUST be accompanied by uric acid testing at least twice a year. Monthly is better.
Let me add my two cents or a nickel's worth:
I have been taking daily my 1 oz conc. black cherry juice for more than 5 years.
I buy ground celery seeds in 5# lots and add it to my salads, home-baked breads, and wherever appropriate. (2 cents worth)
I happen to be later in life (approaching 80).
I, also, happen to have had gout for more than 26 years.
I have gouty tophi on fingers and both feet (toes). (A nickle's worth)
I can confirm GP's comment: Uric acid crystals tend to grow very slowly.
I can further confirm: They often go unnoticed, especially by me and my DOCTORS.
I must admit, unfortunately, without uric acid control, they will reach a level where:
I had acute gout flares which became more frequent and more intense. And
I know that I have permanent damage to bones, ligaments & tendons from the corrosive effects of gouty tophi. (A dime's worth)
After all that I, I, I business, let me assure everybody that GoutPal's repeated statement should be written in stone: You must control (manage) your gout! And the only way you know that you are doing it and succeeding, is by KNOWING your SUA (Serum Uric Acid) level, and it better be below 6.8 mg/dl, preferably below 4-5 mg/dl.
odo said:
Sorry, but you read wrong. The sentence lists three things Allo is used for: 1. gout 2. High SUA caused by cancer meds and (comma) 3. Kidney stones.
Clear?
Thanks Odo for setting me straight.
(Google helped: Allopurinol (Brand names: Aloprim, Zyloprim)
Allopurinol is used to treat gout, high levels of uric acid in the body caused
by certain cancer medications, and kidney stones. Allopurinol is in a class of
medications called xanthine oxidase inhibitors. It works by reducing the
production of uric acid in the body. High levels of uric acid may cause …
Side effects – How to take – Precautions – Dietary Instructions – Missed a dose
http://www.nlm.nih.gov)odo said:
boblewis8787 said:
Allopurinol is used to treat gout, high levels of uric acid in the body caused by certain cancer medications, and kidney stones. Correct
High levels of uric acid may cause gout attacks or kidney stones. Correct
No confusion there Hans. The clue is in the commas
Odo, comma or not, I read that high levels of uric acid is caused by kidney stones, which I don't think is Correct. Yes, I know that uric acid may cause kidney stones.
And Zip seems to have confirmed my suspicion.
boblewis8787 said:
… Zyloprim Generic Allopurinol is used to treat gout, high levels of uric acid in the body caused by certain cancer medications, and kidney stones … uric acid may cause gout attacks or kidney stones …
I suggest you evaluate your statements, boblewis8787. Make up your mind: Is uric acid caused by…kidney stones or does uric acid cause kidney stones ???
[GoutPal: quote of sales pitch removed – yes boblewis8787 is a spammer trying to flog cheap drugs. He brings shame on the good people of India] Are you a sales rep for Zyloprim?
MyFootHurts said:
Post edited 12:11 pm – August 8, 2010 by MyFootHurts
…They work like bood glucose monitors, if you've ever used one of those. You prick your finger and apply a drop of blood to a test strip.
One more thing, if you want to save money: Make sure that you get a large blob of blood, approx. 1/8 inch (for Americans) and 3mm (for the rest of the world) diameter or readings will come in low, meaning you wasted a test strip. And they are outragely expensive.
zip2play said:
Post edited 3:01 pm – July 24, 2010 by zip2play
…This fructose nonsense is just the latest fad to gain internet space for people with no knowledge of gout. …
Rest assured, fructose will go away and some NEW scourge will be found by some quacks to explain all our ills, just buy their books to find out which… $29.95 at Barnes and Noble.
…
“This fructose nonsense is just the latest fad”! I, the medical industry, the pharma industry, and the big food giants industry beg to differ with you, Zip. HFCS has saved them and has made them a lot of money over the last 40 years. The food giants saved a lot of money on sugar and made a lot using HFCS. The medical industry made a lot of money on the diabetics who sought heir help. And, of course, the pharma industry got stinky rich on all the gadgets and meds they “invented” for the poor bastards who were “plopped in front of the TV… while stuffing their other hole with too much food: sugar, meat, fat, greasy carbs, cheese on everything.”
“just buy their books to find out which… $29.95 at Barnes and Noble.” People don't need to spend $29.95 at Barnes; they get it a lot cheaper buying the industry's “sugared” waters to explain and sooth their ills.
trev said:
…
The drug Co's hide the side effects of many chemicals in trial flummery,and if this was not so more people would rely on them. Fact is- it's nearly always better to use natural methods of cure [IF Possible!] , as by definition all others are unnatural, like it or not.
Back to fructose- this is bad component of modern diet because it IS like a drug to many who can't manage without a fix.
…
Otherwise, thinking about the meds/sucrose issue- it's like taking drugs for no good reason apart from short term lift with long term bad effects.
…
I go along with your viewpoint on fructose, Trev.
vegetarianGuy said:
…
So Hansinm and Trev how do you explain Gout in my case then?
…
It has to be 100% genetic in my case. Father and mum side both have gout cases. So why did my diet not protect me if food is so important in your opinion for gout control? What turned the gout switch on in my body? I know no one can answer it but just saying
VegyGuy, you said it and I agree with you: It has to be 100% genetic in my case.
I dare say that most of our gout is hereditary and based on the foods and drinks we consume. Let's not forget that ALL human beings have uric acid in their “system”. It depends how our “system” handles it: dismantles it and gets rid of it. And that's where our inheritance packages from our parents and grandparents, etc. come in.
My dad had it from early on. I drank alcoholic beverages since I was a kid. I did NOT get gout till I was 53 (that is, becoming obvious through an attack). BUT my uric acid levels increased every year, which I did NOT know, until it was too late.
zip2play said:... only thing you can do to successfully treat gout is to use proper medications…
with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet. …
If a small fraction of the 12% is caused by fructose consumption, the rest of the 12% by “ strong association with the consumption of alcohol, sugar, meat, and seafood” why give it a second thought beyond the fact that excess fructose calories will make you fat...
“with 88% of the causes of gout having nothing whatsoever to do with diet.” That's where I disagree with you. It's far more than 12%. Just look at all the processed foods on the shelves! Most of them have HFCS instead of sugar. (HFCS=High Fructose Corn Sugar)
“why give it a second thought beyond the fact that excess fructose calories will make you fat” Because the food industry has substituted it for sugar in the last 40 years (to save money) and history shows that gout has increased dramatically during the last 40 years. And not just gout. Fat young, middle-aged, and old people, especially among the “non-rich” kings and robber barons, since they are forced to buy what the food giants pawn off to them at lower prices have increased in diabetes, obesity, and who knows what else.
“only thing you can do to successfully treat gout is to use proper medications.” Not everybody is as fortunate as you to be able to take/tolerate Allopurinol or afford Uloric, the ONLY two uric acid lowering drugs on the market today.
jlew said:
…
Please don't think me a cry baby! I just really need a place to vent, and this just seems to really help.
…
jlew, don't think that you are the only cry baby (and I am not really calling you a cry baby.) As limpy said, “This stuff can bring a tear to the toughest man's eyes.” Believe me, there a lot of gouties out here who have literally cried because they didn't know what to do with the pain, how to handle it.
You already got some good advice: Find a rheumatologist, since you have a better chance with him/her than most any other doctor. Get your blood checked to see where your SUA (Serum Uric Acid) level is. To get hold of your gout you must know that figure. 6.8 mg/dl is the magic/critical point. Anything below and you are on the way to a better life (provided you are taking to right medication to control your UA.) Anything above and you are standing a good chance of occurring/re-occurring gout attacks/ twinges, or whatever you want to call them.
Colchicine is the prevalent med to deal with the inflammation which gout causes. Naproxen/Aleve is one of the meds which deals with the pain which your inflammation causes. HOWEVER, before you take any of those meds, you need to see a doctor (preferably a rheumatologist) and have your blood checked. Remember: Once you have gout, you have it for life. The ONLY thing you can do MUST DO, is continuously MANAGE it, that means check your uric acid level in your blood and keep it below 6.8mg/dl.
caveman38 said:
…I am 59 and weighed 13 St. 3llbs and am now 12 1/2 st.
…but now I have the liver to worry about although TBH I haven't a clue what is the matter if at all. He asked if I drank a lot of alcohol (which I don't) …
caveman38, you picked the right member ID since you are still using weight measurements which humans who have left the caves are no longer using or even know any more, except the descendents of the cave people who invaded what is called the United States of America and who (as a so-called advanced industrial society/country) are still using inches, feet, ounces, and pounds, rather than cm, m, g, kg which even the UK has adopted. Don't shoot the messenger, caveman, please! I am actually a peaceful gouty, who only fights gout, but have yet to blow the horn of victory.
My advice: You need to find out what's wrong with your liver. “…and again higher than normal liver figures (whatever they are). He is more concerned with the liver than the Gout at the moment… doesn't say doodely-doo. You got to find answers to the following questions: 1. What are normal liver figures for a male? 2) Why aren't your figures normal? 3) Why isn't he treating your gout? 4) Is your doc inexperienced and/or incompetent? Maybe some other gouties have more questions to ask!!! In any case, having a liver problem (if you really have one) is one thing, but not treating your gout with a SUA reading of “8”, “liver problem” is NO excuse for not addressing your gout problem.
I had a liver problem when I was 16 years old (that was 63 years ago). Don't ask me what it was (I had jaundice and whatever else when I was 12/13 during the war). All I remember is that the doctor gave me ultra-sound treatment for about 4 weeks (in his office) and some medication for about 2 weeks and I haven't had a problem with my liver since. I have been consuming alcohol daily since I was a kid and every time I had a physical, the doctor would tell me that I had a slightly enlarged liver. I have been brewing, and of course drinking, my own beer for almost 30 years, and making my own wines for about 10 years with gout enhancing my life for the last 26 years. Everything remained “manageable” with Colchicines and Naproxens, including my flares/attacks, until it became “unmanageable” because neither my doctors nor I had actually started to “manage” my gout, that is addressed my high uric acid levels. To stay with the facts: my first doctor who diagnosed me with gout in 1984 finally put me on Allopurinol in 1996, only to find out that I was very allergic to that med. Then nothing happened until a third doctor (a university med professor to boot) put me on Probenecid in 2000 (after being his patient for 4 years.) Now I am on Uloric since July 8, this year, recommended by the umpteenth doctor since my prof doc's retirement in 2006.
Just one man's not so humble opinion.
zip2play said:
Post edited 5:21 pm – July 6, 2010 by zip2play
Caveman,
Mine are close to the size of a pinhead…dosage 1/2 mg. I guess it there were no additives, the active dose could be in a pill the size of a pin POINT.
…
Zip, I know you live in the States, so what kind of “Colchicines” did you take/buy?? 1/2mg and pinhead size??? My Colchicines have been .6mg and the size of your smiley
for more than 26 years to this very day.Utubelite said:
…
This is just my thought. Being a person in management consulting field, I love to categorize items based on severity
Nice job, Utubelite. One item missing: A nice picture representing each category.
Utubelite said:
hansinnm,
Yes, I am on full dose of all so called prohibited vegies…it is now many months and everyday, my 70% plus food is madeup of such items. So far, there seems to be no issue.
Thank you so much, Utubelite. You added lots of sunshine to my days ahead.
GoutPal said:
…Get wringing Hans,…
Thank you, GP, for your comments.
I am not sure if I have enough hands and years to accomplish all my wringing. I have added all those I have talked to and the ones I haven't yet who are suckings on the tits ( and I don't know how many there are) of taxpayers by having a cushening job with Social Security.
zip2play said:
…
Allopurinol stops us from turning all those purines into uric acid so it MIGHT be a different story from probenecid. But it seems likely the net result would be the same.
…
Thanks, Zip. Allopurinol is going to be a topic of discussion when I see my rheumatologist on July 1.
Utubelite said:…
The only thing which caused very little money but huge separation of pain and swelling was Allopurinol and Colchicine combo.
Since that time, I do not care about any other gout care product…I think it is more taxing on mind than helping. I actually have been testing myself by eating whatever is Gout prohibited – dried beans, pulses, spinach, mushrooms, cauliflower, asparagus, oatmeal…and I have been eating them a lot for last 6 weeks, every meal generally has one of these prohibited items…and also lamb on few occasions in addition to these items….so far it has been good, no flareups or twinges…let's hope it stays same way. I am taking 300 mg Allopurinol a day and I think it is helping to keep gout away…
“dried beans, pulses, spinach, mushrooms, cauliflower, asparagus, oatmeal…”
Are you still eating all those vegies without any “gout effects” ? Please, Utubelite, let me know. I am ready to ring all those people's neck who have kept me fom eating those healthy vegies.
I am not on Allo, but on Probenecid.
trev said:
Quote: For some reason doctors do not like prescribing more than 2 colchicine’s per day. Dunno why.
….
Please, let me repeat an earlier post of mine:
My GP, way back (26 years ago) who diagnosed my gout correctly, recommended 2 Colchicines and two Naproxens/day (today over-the-counter: Aleve) till the attack was over. Philosophy, theory, hypothesis: The Colchicine works on the inflammation (which causes the pain), the Naproxen/Aleve works on the pain. Neither Colchicine nor Naproxen/Aleve do anything to treat or deal with your gout. All they do is dealing with the symptoms of your gout: that is inflammation and pain. So, if you take Colchicine only, while it will reduce the inflammation, your pain will still continue until the inflammation is totally gone. That's the reason why doctors recommend continuing taking Colchicine for at least another week after the inflammation is over, to assure that it will not flare up again which it can and will, if you got lots of uric acid/ MSU floating or deposited in and around your joints.
The only meds which will work on your gout directly or indirectly are: Allopurinol, Uloric/Febuxostat, Probenecid (Benuryl) and one other one (I don't have the name at the tip of my tongue right now) which is physiologically doing what Probenecid does.
There is a distinct difference between Allop. & Uloric and Prob. & 1 other: The first two work on your system/body/metabolism to prevent creating more uric acid (turning the purines of your food into UA), the second two aid your system/body/metabolism, especially your kidneys to get rid of excess uric acid/MSU. A doctor, preferably a rheumatologist, is the one to guide and advise you which one to take.
You need to be very much aware of the side effects of the various meds.
