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Someone correct me here if I'm wrong- but I think fasting only applies to Glucose test (Blood sugar-12 hours, water only) which some meters do measure.
UA varies more slowly afaik, and the longer term is more meaningfull.
Like- days at least and weeks or months will indicate intended progress, if on a dietary course of action. That's what I expect!
I've had swings over some days, of 2.5 points which reflect supplements, diet and fluid intake in unknown measure.
Taking first thing am is a good idea as it gets it out the way and your body will be stable after a nights rest. It will be more acidic though, not sure if this is reflected in the UA readings- but this will allow best 'day to day' comparisons to be judged.
If you want to post some figures it will be of interest here, certainly to me.
One early and a late in the day- plus any notes on gout symptoms ,if you're keen- but all info goes into the grinder here π
I think a lot of posters here realise Docs are routinely fallible.
When I see reports of serious illness or death through negligence , I can barely believe it's a modern health service sometimes.
[Though we're ALL fallible, I know – but don't charge for it!]
The number of experts you have seen weighed in the opinion forming and kept us all guessing VG!
I never realised you had such high steady UA readings, VG!
Have you kept that quiet , or I have I just missed it?
On the calcium, I think it shows in the blood but haven't read it up lately, like you intend.
Anyways- if you are soon starting AP you will find out more as it kicks in hopefully. It will be interesting to see whether you escape further flares now you are over the worst of the last attack.
It does seem , though- that was a huge drop of UA from previous readings without any treatment.
PS: If you want to help gout, dairy is no bad thing, especially if you're low on protein.
Where DO you get yours from normally? Protein , that is…
I do eat fish sometimes and quite lot of varied nuts.
Good luck with the meds, anyway!
If I pulled a name out of the hat for your description VegGuy, it would be 'Psuedo'gout – though it usually attacks in the knees.
Have you had your Calcium levels checked?
I'm feeling fairly up at present.
My main approach is to keep to an alkaline diet as much as possible and put acid excretion down to urates, so – as long as that takes really! What else could be doing it?
It takes a long time to build up after all .. No quick cures in this.
Veggy- I was thinking, before your pic., that you were definitely sounding more like a gouty ! Wry smile…
I didn't respond as you had many previous advices and indications that it wasn't gout- and I didn't feel able to respond usefully.
However, your pic is a beaut for a gout book- as Zip would agree, as he might be planning one- from previous comments on my pics.
The doubt is still there though, as the swelling looks too far under the foot [for my experience anyway] and it still quite possible you have another, unspecified, inflammatory condition.
It's impossible for non medicals to diagnose here- you have to take a professional approach and go for further opinions, if up a dead end with current support.
Sorry you are having no luck in nailing this so far – as with knowing what 'it' is helps plan dealing with 'it'.
All the usual gout treatments for inflammation should hold good. All the same- go easy on self treatments!
Hopefully you know them all by now.
.
Sue- Early findings are positive to the good, but my body is extremely acid. I had over 1/2 bott. wine last night and also crunched my old injury and stopped my Goutcure for a rest from it- and Lo !- my body acid is lower than my urine in the night. No surprise really, I suppose.
If you're used to macro diets, nor will you be…
The result is twinges suddenly returning in the night- but immed. on to the H2O and get out the BBB from freezer on standby. if not needed it can go back quickly as it came out!.
This turn of events shows that my body is going well out of balance- it's not SUA that will tell me anything right now.
I will have to start another thread on this. I think you will find something to build on yet, as I reckon you have the right background to get stuck in on this routine, with some local fine tuning maybe π
You may find Phofabs' juicing approach helpful in this also. tricky old business…
Not completely- Turtles can morph into BBB very easily
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..Q&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..s&NR=1
If only gout could be disappeared so easily…
Have a smile viewing!
It was the' Caps' that got me π Your thanks to a cartoon character?
BTW- I remember learning that Plutonium is deadly at 1 mg or was it micro?…and there's enough of that blowing round the world.
Thanks, Big Science!
BBB doesn't have a long half life, Hey Met? π
Meta- I didn't quite flag your name at first
On the Soy v. Turtle thing one thing I remember working out was the cyanide contribution from a batch of turtle beans being about 50 micrograms. If the ratio is pro rata as for anthacyanins then there could be the eqiuvalent weight of a daily colchine dose [a potential , if seemingly small 1.2 mg], another low doseage and to be careful with med..
A natural medicine guy I was discussing this with the other day socially said to my suggestion that it was ' probably OK' was – it doesn't take much
Still, you have survived it
– but I have noticed enough benefit from Turtle beans to be OK on those, for now.I don't think it's the alkaline staus that affects gout with these cruciferous vegs. There something in the makeup, purines?- can't remember…- sad really, as broccoli is always rated a wonder food.
If you get most of your diet right ,maybe a few risks are OK.It's just if you have an unbalanced diet and have gout running you will hit trouble nearly every time.
When I break too many rules or get unlucky-that's when BBB gets a look in!
That site I gave produce a diet shee-t provided with their meter. Maybe you can ask them for one?
Sour dough breads are supposed to be better diet- but I still love the smell and taste of modern bread. Recently- I've cut bread right back. Baked potatoes are the starch of choice.
The other thing to remember iis keep your water intake up- it HAS to become a habit, I'm finding.
from Ionizers.org grains are in as mildly acidic. they were missing totally from my recent diet ( and a lot less in my current follow on).
This means less calories and less butter too ;). I make my own bread and use 50% spelt mixes to aid digestion and add quality grains. [It's non hybridised]
The main components are Veg, fruit, soured milk products. Protein from nuts and mixes with brown rice and corn. http://www.goutcare.co.uk/#/fo…..4531860779
So much of what we eat is the wrong way round 3.5:1 acid high rather than a majority of alkaline food [at least].
It makes me wonder how people escape gout- but of course it IS rising all over, at least the developed world.
On the fluid draw- it must be less tricky than a spinal puncture ,which I've had- where the only problem was hitting a nerve- Ouch!. I think there has to be a certain amount of fluid there so if not, they can't get.
It seems to me you may be a fair bit off that test yet with one attack, but your Doc can best judge. With info from here you can keep them on their toes at least. π
In all of this diet and lifestyle action there will be discrepancies and questions- but the important thing, to me, is get the right direction and stick to it. I have lapsed in the past- but this time giving it a major shot!
Without knowing actual UA levels in the blood, management is hard.
It's hard enough even when figures are known, as these can vary through the day. Long term trend is most important.
Further, matters are complicated by the fact that if one is dithering on the threshold of an attack, going through one -or even reducing urate in the body successfully, the figures can all blur together.
It's because of this tendency that gout is hard to treat easily, in my view, and not all Drs even try very hard to understand it.
Meds are an easy way forward- but as with all meds there may be a price to pay, eventually.
I doubt they will be considered in OPs' case without more attacks,and certainly not without a blood test.[PS On the BBB, try topping up with water and using a tighter fitting lid to reduce steam escape.
I flush my beans residue with boiling water to get another whack of residue from the batch]Alkaline dieting is my way forward. [But it aint easy]
My knee joints are improving (never gouty, but easily strained)
Sue- I have a profile very similar to you apart from being male.
The weight, STRESS and even moderate meat consumption (I only eat fish) are enough for someone with a family history of gout. Do you have undiagnosed high B.P?
If it's any consolation , my blood UA dropped from 6.2 to 4.5 on an alkaline diet recently and I still got twinges if taking wine or not enough water.
It's now back up to 6.8 – border country, so I'm watching every wrong move right now but am hoping, realistically, that the higher level is now due to Urate shipping around enough to be expelled. Needless to say, urine Ph is low [very acid] rising to not qiute so low during the day.
Maybe I should hunt down that battery hygrometer in the garage?
The consolation test is saliva Ph , which is more averaged out by the body [like the blood Ph], and that is an acceptable 7. WoooHooooo!
PS: Bear in mind, there is always the possiblity of Psuedo gout, caused by excess calcium rather than urate- but I think that normal gout is better to handle ,from reports on here. As GP says, the microscope will confirm from a drawn sample, if that is asked for / offered.
I have to admit I don't add chillies for any anti- inflammatory property- just to give a kick!
The garlic and ginger are definitely listed as helpful – but I've never had a problem with chillies either.I only use one two small ones.
it is a bit trial and error Ouch- the official beans seem to be Phaseous Vulgaris , or Common bead as you'd expect from the name.
Meta has used Soya beans to good effect- but I prefer the common one- and they are easier to get , too.
I've got used to using it in soups now and it makes a good enough watery base- if you flash up the new batch in the pan,add your extras like a thick soup portion- then do the ginger, garlic shreds and chillies if you like. If your a curry type you'll have no problem. π
I do 3 cups a day if needed but, tbh, I've not got that close to an attack to make me 'go for it' big time like Meta does. The general consensus here seems that BBB is safe if you take normal cooking precautions and store well. It will start getting lively after a few days , even in the fridge due to fermenting residues. This is basis of fermented beans, so OK afaik.You won't get drunk on it!
Obviously a slow intro is best in case you're allergic to anything- but with gout decisions don't take long on choosing helpmates… π
Another factor is the taste- quite earthy, but I've got to like it.
I wonder too, if the body 'twig's it's helpful in some way and your taste modifies to suit.
Easier in soup , anyway. Just had a batch after a few glasses of wine last night reminded me by 'way of toes'!
Nate- I've never taken AlloP but from reading others exp. here- I reckon on 600mg daily you must be looking to clear the worst of your current pains in a couple of months or so.
In this case are you thinking 'not so' ?, as you are still looking far ahead for major pain killers.
It sounds like you're already forging ahead!
Ouch, i don't think you need to worry overmuch on the protein intake unless you're a body builder or lumberjack.
The human body can get by on surptrisingly little- the secret is balancing the amino acids and also a healthy digestion to absorb correctly. Almonds are the most alkaline- but not the 'milk' made from it. A couple of brazils are good for you dail- but don't overdo [Selenium]
At a time when you're trying to get a handle on gout I think you can learn new diet approach easily. Other things you can research as you go!
On the bean Broth, try reading up the Black Bean saga on here- very useful to use- esp. at those twinge times.
Make some up, freeze it and defrost as needed. I take enough to do a soup and re -freeze it promptly. i use a screw cap old soup container [Sainsburys UK] and leave a gap for expansion on freezing ,too!
Haddock usually seems to be on the' not for gouties' list , Ouch. I eat it also, but rarely.
Avoid prawns and shellfish !
A body does need high class protein to stay healthy and fish serves most of that need. Skinned is better , I think – and I always have childs sized portion.
On the EFAs I take an Omega 3 high quality (from US) supplement. I avoid gelatin by squeezing contents onto toast.
Codl iver oil is good for Vit A + D maybe, if added. They don't carry in the purines which are protein components. I would persist using it. Other moves will have more impact to the good that you are trying.
Oils are different, afaik.
Vit B12 is the one you have to watch (going low) long term, if staying meat free- and a supplement of this does no harm.
For fun- try the diet I've started- where a meat equivalent is:
Brown rice -boiled, almonds and sweetcorn- it's supposed to be the same as meat for amino acid content!
The iron absorption is limited in this combination also.
Might be boring- but add stuff! Like in the curry.
Where I applaud your efforts on diet is that you are 'getting in' very early- before you have a lot of UA build up to remove. { Hopefully]
Tofu is on the alkaline list. I use it with no problems- stir fries are the easiest way and includes those essiential [esp. for Gouties] mixed vegetables.
Use root ginger , garlic and chillies freely- but don't overcook the latter especially, as it will destroy the good fractional compounds in the heating.
If you make progress on alkalising your diet you may well find an increase in mild twinges on old sites of attacks- but you don't have these, like I do.
Though I like to stay meat free, and do so- I do have fish [Cod best for Gout -of the common ones] once or twice per week and also use it skinless- as that is where a lot of the purines lodge, apparently!
Been making good progress!
Curry additives like Cumin are really good for gout.
Good news all round, Ouch!
I've ordered an under the sink water filter as promised and checked the Fluoride elemination capability of it -and it is virtually all removed.
This is excellent, and I have no worries about getting rid of Chlorine and Fluoride as they are both a toxic load on the system, especially at the higher levels some areas have to put up with.
I'll report the effects here later.
A great turnaround Nate- but I can't believe you get away with that activity, a day after being nearly immobilised.
You must be risking joint damage unless you have very minor deposits- especially out in the cold?
With the new diet, weight loss (which we know will cause twinges at the very least) and losing the crab sticks particularly !! – it will be interesting to see if the Kom. brewing kit has moved to the back of the cupboard, after the visit to the GP last week.
BTW: I don't think anyone is proposing ProBios as a single approach to helping gout- but as an assist in a non-meds approach [or- even with meds, come to that].
However, in this latter case, the good effects of other measures will be nigh on impossible to judge, being swamped by the undoubted UA lowering effects of AlloP, or similar med.
I'm sure you're on the right track Nate.
High retained uric acid has many outcomes in my book.
Reading about that trial in the US about teen' High BP being reduced by AlloP comes to mind. it was discussed here a few months back and I must follow up the case again- as my BP still needs to come down, along withthe meds for it- I must stress.
I'm hoping that keeping my SUA levels around the 5mg/dl will help this aim and further now clocking the morning acid water reading to check clearance is occuring.
One particular case in this gout saga where higher 'acid readings' (Lower Ph.)are actually good- so long as the reading is more alkaline (ie:higher Ph) later in the day.
Good job no needles are involved π
I remember Germany years ago and the rate of sausage stuffing and Schnapps sinking was humungous. I think we both need a better lifestyle – certainly you have many more years to plan for!
Good health will make them much more pleasant!
Well, OP Paul seems to have survived using it!
Perhaps like Kefir it acts lower in the gut . A good immune reaction requires a 'stronger' organism that will pass through the upper acidic digestion without degrading.
Kefir is said to be capable of this duty and the ProBio I take now is designed for this.
I think it's all a matter of degree- natural products aren't like drugs, with an expected result in so many days- but rather, a test it and see approach. In the LONG run they may well be as much good and more than drugs but –
a)Mixing with drug therapy [so often the case] &
b) taking alcohol which flushes everything through, whatever
is not likely to help, as Paul describes.
That sounds just about bearable, Nate.
The thinking on here is that a good crack at 'the beast' is best. Taking the slower route myself makes me sympathise with your course of action- but at least yours is a more certain result, in princilple. Nice to have a clued up Doc btw.
You must be over the worst now!
Interesting Dave, what your Dr said about tophi needing 4 to 5 SUA fig.
Always good to have a number- though that itself is obviously very patient peculiar!
It would be even more helpful to have an assessment for time needed to acheive- but this is VERY unlikely to ever surface as a protocol.
Also the thoughts about |Colchicine long term.
Useful overview, anyway.
Nate- You've gone for the ' b u r n' (had to spell that out, looked too rude π and I wonder if, as in your case, where urate gets shifted early- a slower approach wouldn't be, overall, much kinder?
Persistence and resilience, as well as humour, are needed in 'Big G' hunting country π and Mets has shown his 'mettle' on this one. Sorry about that π
I shall be cracking open some vintage BBB from the freezer- as with my niggles increasing again will need to knock them back a touch!
Once I get the Ph kit (ordered now) – I will try and gauge the effect of BBB on acidity, but I don't care either way, so long as the potential flare is cut down.
I have a good country walk planned soonish π
That's OK Richard , – my emphasis was more on the water intake- but looking for secondary clues as to how to implement it best.
BP is just a very useful focal point, as it's well understood (if not treated that well,especially for Gouties), and often presents with gout.
The issue is really too opposite requirements fighting in the middle, as so often happens.
I would like to try Soda Bicarb (Note: Not baking powder! ) -but don't want to destabilise my salt balance right now.
It's a good short cut, I think, but at the usual price!- loss of homeostasis.
