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Possibly the fact that [red] wine has the compound resveratrol in it that may help reduce any due inflammation, along with other fractions that seem to be good for us*. The fact that two glasses of wine daily are always quoted as 'good for us' says something. I suppose some trails would audit back to some pushy vineyard somewhere- but at least I have one 'legit' poison left.
* .
I must say that , Goutwise, it's definitely the lesser of the 'three evils' in my case- but one must still remember dutifully to drink plain water before retiring on it.
Added benefit- less risk of dehydration & hangover
@GP The direct efffect of alcohol on uric acid readings (which is probably all that matters).
This issuer has been niggling me for a while now.. not the argument here, but the issue of Alcohol on gout needle coatings, liver function and as a trigger factor in general.
Concentrating on the absolute level of UA on one day after 20 years of possible build up seems to oversimplify the issue in my view.
Gout is affected individually by rates of deposition, absorpsion, re- laying down, impact at any particular site as to pain generated, dietary impact AND Alcohol intake. This latter is the only 'short term' input of the lot in my experience* and therefore is only the last nail in the coffin.
[* Recently having No alcohol for 4 weeks- then an attack within hopurs of a beer binge.]
This is , anyway, hardly a reason to consider banning it for gout- if indeed this could ever be done.
However, to support alcohol as thus barely implicated is a jump too far as spin goes- because no-one is ever going get a blood test done to prove or disprove the point.
it would be un-ethical medicine and anyone in risk of a severe reaction at such a critical time would indeed be foolish to risk more trouble, even for the sake of science.
In this case, average statistics are all we have, or likely to have – and show clear traits on the issue of Gout and the negative effect of Alcohol [at least Beer & Spirits]
2nd- Surely now is the time to cash in on your lower UA level by giving AlloP another try as Zip suggests?
if you're prepared to sit out till an attack hits -why not risk some early pain that will at least keep you on track, UA wise?
One reason for not starting drug therapy is the need to keep going with full term- but to stop now seems counter to all advice here -unless AlloP produces allergy or serious side effects. It will need 6 months by all accounts, to settle the matter one way or the other -on adequate dosage.
If you can afford to see it through 'alone'- with inevitable income loss ,pain,etc. this is the same track you plan as myself currently, so this is not criticism in any way.
With well over 3000 views on your topic ,Meta – I think an occasional rant is allowable 🙂
Natural is best- if not so predictable.
The question may well be:
Do we put AlloP in Beer ? (Not Natural) OR…..
Ferment Black Beans to 5% Alcohol ? (Natural)
Ahhh.. the delights of positive, lateral thinking… Drink your Gout away!
Thanks Meta- I think that was the article I saw. The explanation that effects have been observed in critical areas seemd very supportive that there is a lot BBB ,or derivatives, can do in manhy areas.
My link earlier covered virus activity also being reduced.
A report yesterday described the huge strides possible in Cancer treatment- again implicating free radicals etc. These are medical reports, not new age dreamering- and I think more attention by the public would be good to get people to trust nature more and refuse easy options, like drugs, by finding working alternatives.
Folk remedies may be out of fashion- but then so is independent thinking in an age when there's a 'cure' for everything, even if it doesn't often work as expected ie: time limited with quite severe side effects.
I've often thought looking around at research articles how long some facts have been known but not acted on -due to lack of profit?
BBB is in this category, I reckon. People can always get them- and DIY, like I said earlier, would need to be banned to change this.
An interesting first post Dragos.
Analysis of data is a good idea but for something as complicated as gout you would have to have a very big range of questions and along time period doing it too.
I've never taken AlloP, but you're not alone in getting side effects. Advice will issue forth 'ere long!
One thing always advised- is no Stop/Start with it though- so that may be a factor in your timings.
Onm the trigger point- I think it takes a fair while to get the habits of this disease so it's not usually possible to nail a culprit with certitude.
However, Yeasts in Beer, MSG, Extracts etc. have been implicated often enough for gout- so bread may be a problem for you. It's normally kiilled by the baking, though the remnants would still be there. You can still smell and taste the yeast, after all. Most people like it for that reason.
Get the recipe if you can.
You're definitely more aware than many your age about Gout BTW, so with your approach and help here + more knowledge being gained nowadays you will have a good chance of managing /treating any further attacks you may be worried about.
Whether lifestyle or age is the bigger factor for gout, getting older seems to bring it on more. [ BP, Weight gain, Stress,Kidney function]
Coupled to the genetics factor- this makes it always a personalised disease and maybe why medics find it hard to get a handle on many cases – and just follow the average numbers game , which we know on here, doesn't fit very often.
Reducing Flouride/ Chloride levels in drinking water would have more health benifits than worrying about ions. I don't think our bodies developed 100,000 of years ago to depend on such technologies- but pollution and interference in our essential needs goes on and on.
I will be getting a sink top filter system when funds improve- they seem to be more effective these days for not much more than £120.
From recent reading, I was most impressed with how BBB can work.
It seems to work into the inflammation control system of the body at a molecular level and stop the runaway over-reaction that produces gout symptoms.
Another example of miracle nature- No doubt in 30 years it will be illegal to boil BB due to 'toxic risks' or similar -but bet your boots, there will be a long sounding name pill for gout, very closely related to a new bean found in a remote jungle…
PS: BBB wouldn't help in the least in a physical trauma- in fact could make recovery worse , on the above info.
No,Zip, The overnight, or shorter (I've used 4 hours ok with Black Turtle beans anyway) is to get one possible nasty out of the outer skins -and then the fast boil breaks down the beans prior to leaching out the remainder of the 'good stuff' for the broth. So one 'must ditch' the cold soak water.
Sorry Meta, you misread my post over the ongoing use of cooked beans –
Like Zip I discard them generally, but have been known to put a few into the soup mix I do to make it a bit more interesting. No doubt for non-gouties an excellent base for bean burgers or Mex. pasty
It would be counter intuitive to persist in munching through a bucket of beans, however wasteful in a starving world that happens to be!
Gout Rules on this baby!
There's always been warnings about soaking kidney beans and the like- I think it's a similar chemical to that in green potatoes skin, especially dodgy for pregnant women. [Oxalates?]
If I remember right the stuff in the skins that is usefull is the anthocyanins - similar to BlueBs etc.
I feel guilty discarding the beans but on all sayings on gout -beans,they may be good veggy protein, but not for gouties. Counterproductive I would say!
Back to the safety issue- not all beans have these instructions on them- when my local health food shop looked up the herb Bible – it did stress this routine quite firmly.
Better safe than sorry, I suppose.
The other thing reccommended is to boil the beans briskly for ten minutes after ditching the first cold soak- and then reducing heat to a simmer for 1.5 hours approx.
I must admit to having the same thoughts as you when looking at the dark liquor to be thrown- but as a chemist you must be well used to throwing away expensive constituents on route to a useful result…
Gary , your experience tracks mine ,somewhat.
I think , now the colder weather is coming in gout will be presenting to us both – my UA figure was the same as yours back a few months so things will get trickier again.
I will persist with BBB -adding to soup covers it up well. it's supposed to be effective in an actual attack best.
ACV has not gone down well with me- but I need to get the 'mother in' version to make it worthwhile taking this battery acid ~:)
Reading it up a while back- I learned it is the pectin in the 'mother' ( not sure about those pesky sludge protein strands!! ] that scavenges the artieries of rubbish and thus keeps circulation up – makes sense to me, if true must help keep that UA mobile.
My comments-
I take CoQ10 inthe expensive Ubiquinol form, also VitC, but it is also a diuretic and heavy doses can make the body 'lazy', apparently ,at extracting other associated nutrients.
Pantothenic acid is called that ,as it's everywhere to be found in foods -so that would be useful only in a restricted diet, imo.
I'm wary of taking heavy doses of Amino Acids, they are used almost like drugs these days and have been popularised by body builders, athletes etc.
Heavy doses of B can affect nerve function and are now limited anyway but a low level multivitamin is good insurance , especially if drinking a lot of alcohol.
I think , in my case , use of vitamiins & supplements has a positive effect on gout,but via a general health path rather than a cure or preventitive.
Anyway, now you 've highlighted them- I will have to look further again.
I do get spates of enthusiasm, from time to time, on the Vit trail!
The other thing I take for joint [& brain function] is Omega3 , but the purest pharma grade to avoid food chain, in fish , pollutants which are getting to be the norm in cheaper versions.
Most men are low in Zinc,and I find this has a beneficial effect- but use one with a small amount of copper in it [which though toxic in larger amounts ,is still needed and antagonised by Zinc on its own]. It also supports the immune system, so theoretically could make a gout attack worse I suppose , so I only take this in the gout free times.
A good balanced diet is the most important process to observe, though!
Stress has been a large contributor to my gout.
Once established on Urate Lowering Therapy and through the bad patch maybe it's just fine tuning.
Gout tendency is a liability and it's not reasonable to expect to carry on as before it occurs. Zip hits the trail with gusto and knows the risks-personally I think to fight ones body or overload it is counterproductive. Grab life by the throat -but prepare for the 'reverse flange' 🙂
Drugs are very useful and pain is something to avoid with all due dilligence- in the end drugs can't cover for an imbalance in lifestyle. They are not magic, neither do they come cost free!
I'm sure , as mentioned many times on here by others ,that diet and lifestyle are important whether ULT is used or not- Gout is just a rather sharp reminder that we are all on a knife edge, often without wanting to think about it, and it certainly sharpens the focus.
I'm glad that, nasty though it is, there are many things worse in life.
Till the next time that is … but in the meantime if some sufferers can manage gout without ULT then the same processes can be used to work with drugs & with higher success.
I think the emphasis is on 'Free Radicals' here Zip.
There's a lot of chat about these and I must admit- there's some hype too.
By lateral thinking, I would say that the ease of producing vitamins (many of them antioxidants-or immune support) would make them a poor business market compared to drugs and therefore their relative value could be judged higher ie:Cheap & backed by much anecdotal evidence and often very necessary for health.
Death by Scurvy or a Vitamin overdose are not the only positions one can hold- so with your sharp intellect could you appraise the possible role of UA in free radical erasure?
Without this argument satisfied it's not possible to downgrade the risk of too low a UA level.
Oh! & and I nearly forgot- possible lowering of IQ too…
What about the role of UA in the immune system as an anti-oxidant , as discussed on here, a while back?
While not worth risking gout or other bad effects -a too low level UA may not be optimal on this account… also -extremely hard to detect on any negative effects in the immune dept., I would hazard!
Stains are now getting attention in the UK as to overall safety.
Mainly centred on the muscle wasting aspect which seriously impacts on kidneys -as well as lifestyle discomforts whilst taking them. Previously a wonder drug!
My neighbour stopped them a few months ago- I advised him not to drink on them at the time, [He was complaining of back pains] -but I don't know why he actually ceased them subsequently.
A new role for Colch- as marker for Statin intolerance?
There's a lot of diet advice about gluten free foods online.
Though not suffering from Coeliac disease like many following this diet-I was having bloat,IBS, sleep disturbance etc. so decided to cut out wheat as much as possible- though i love wholemeal stuff as much as any.
I switched to spelt cereal and bread, and though expensive doing this stopped most of the problems and helped with weight loss.
Celiacs NB: Spelt is [only] LOW in gluten but its high levels of crude fibre help in the elimination of gluten from the system. [Hildegardhealth.com]
I'm not sure if it was the gluten, wheat protein or yeasts that were to blame- but now I can eat wheat in small addition to others.
I started to use my bread machine recently and thus combine interesting flours like Tapioca, Millett (alkaline & are +++ for gout) , Rice (not too good for texture/taste) and of course Spelt ( a traditional Roman flour- non hybridised like modern strains ).
Oats have gluten and are not supposed to be good for gout! In themselves an excellent food source and good for digestion, etc.They hold a lot of water when cooked!
I think it the usual case of everything in moderation , barring allergies – and having wheat solidly is not ideal, if sensitive in any way to components,naturally enough.
I would try a few weeks on lower gluten- that's what if would probably take to detect a difference.
Natures Path do a load of high quality, if a bit pricey, cereals and specialist breads can be found in the better big stores.
In UK, Waitrose have always had a specially good range.
Sourdoughs are an option , but I find them a bit strong.
Making your own bread with a good machine ,or hand even, is easy with 'all in one' pack options available- just add water and go!
PS: Sorry your Mom had a bad run in with those Gout staple meds- I'm wary myself and diet is a really important part of general health- even more so when other issues like food [or drug] intolerances occur.
Give it a good try, anyway- I would be keen to hear of your progress on this…
Most people and, pretty well, all Gov't & Corporations take the Line of Least Resistance- unless there are * big * bucks in it along the line, for doing otherwise.
So you are probably 99% right GP!
Sad commernt on human nature that it is….
Insurers [esp.Car] have long been notorious at sucking up costs- though I believe there was a recent move to get better 'value for money' from repairers.
Given that private health care is the norm 'over the pond'- there is the chance that, in time the Cochicine issue will get a hearing if many make a noise- but as Gov't has apparently gone along with the scam so far- it won't happen soon!
Gout is still a minority interest- though reported to be a growing problem.
One factor to come out of this will be to make people REALLY sit up and take notice of who/what is running their life , health options and country also …
Colchicine is not a drug to mess with- in my exp. when co- admiinistered with other drugs.
My last adventure on this was with statins and it took a couple of days for my system to reset, and that was on 6 x 0.5 mg Colch. over a day.
The only antibiotic I usually take is incompatible with Colch also. (Erythromicin]
I did feel pretty weird and the fact that medics don't actualy have much, if any,personal experience of what side effects can come about, makes it worse!
If you're still at work, I would consider a few days rest to get your system steady-Likewise, any exercise regime.
We're not machines- and drugs , apart from the pain and worry about the illness, take toll on our metabolism at the best of times- which we don't always allow for.
It's hard to give specifics.
My comments: A few days is not a long time in goutology!
It can feel like broken bones- in fact more painful, in my experience.
It can also feel like an infection, as the bodys' reaction is the same- in fact worse than normal.
The mental stress of unusual pain and peoples lack of understanding on this make things worse- without doubt.
PS : Your dog probably does understand- but has no way of helping… apart from those sad eyes 😉
It can go on for many weeks or even months- but you know from posts here, the least painful; and most sure route is drug therapy, applied over time, looking out for adverse reactions,yes- but there is a way through.
You will feel better when you get some numbers on your blood tests- worry is not helping but is perfectly normal. You are being listened to, this is not always the case!
Constant pain is extremely wearing.
I find Co-Codamol type painkillers the best, [the soluble ones] but keep doses as low as possible.
I never hit the limits on dosage , whatever the pain. Some remanant pain is inevitable at this stage.
Bear up!
Thanks Zip- I kicked a vacuum cleaner clear- about a foot, with 3 small toes straight on.
I wouldn't be suprised to find a fracture -but there's no treatment for this normally in small bones.
I'm just praying 'ol G' don't sniff out this new site*- I've only ever had it as far as the 'next to big toe' so far. I may treat you a pic of the bruising…
* [Don't worry, the Colch will be out if it does!]
Not sure what the second treatment is you mention apart from rest and physio.
I don't think they would be detrimental administered by medics who know the basics, even if a bit perplexed by this one!
I badly crunched my right small toes in the dark last night and this morning along with the bruising were twinges on the left large toe -at the old gout site, previously settling down OK!
It's highly possible, that like with immune response going overboard in gout, healing processes can act 'broadbrush' , and differently, at various sites – but I'd be extemely surprised if much work has ever been done on this-say, to see if there's a clash between fracture healing and taking AlloP.
Generally in my episodes with gout, continual light use and movement not only keeps mobility- but acts as a mental lift to get you out of the doldrums- so persevere! But be patient
My early results seem to be positive.
I have evolved a technique (like with the wine) of decanting to the fridge /freezer my BBB and then adding 50/50 to soup,(strong like tomato+herbs) and added garlic (good for circulation).
I'm also taking regular Blue berries, cherries (bottled now) and even pineapple chunks -usually topping morning cereal + yoghurt to balance the acidity. NO sugar though!
Last night I had a bott. wine and bean chilli -no twinges, to mention, this am.
My main thought on the food issue is that it takes a lot of effort- If I was working still fulltime- it would be hard to keep dietary focus and habits then slip easily to forgetting to prepare/use.
One must, like gout itself , be endlessly persistent in fighting back!
Gout is cruel in that your immune system is not going bonkers- it is very effective, but simply can't do the job due to a shortfall in the ability to deal with a metabolic imbalance.
This is a genetically inherited trait -and not anyones fault.
Your dietary swings will have made this worse but now you have a good positive attitude to sorting the problem -concentrate on those SUA figures coming down and thank your body and mind for pointing you in the right direction.
We're all doing our best likewise and want to see success…
That's interesting.
Partial frostbite over extended periods must be as good a trauma as one can get to the feet and gout loves low circulations.
You don't mention any SUA taken at that time so it may remain an unknown as to gout status at the time.
Given the time lapse and the multiple injuries it will still take a bit longer to comb out what you're dealing with right now.
A classic case for the new Seimens double scanning technique discussed here a while back to show exactly what joint injury and aftermath exist.
If you can't see a specialist for a second opinion- then time will have to be allowed to produce its magic- hopefully.
It is dragging on longer than a usual gout attack , but yours is an unusual situation, also.
Doctors have limited knowledge of gout in general, though you have better advice than many- it's quite possible you have an 'early onset' type scenario caused by trauma which is presenting in an odd way and will likely resolve with adequate rest and contiuing lowering SUA.
That's the positive view -if you can't get that scan!
We're not medics here, all the same – but understand the problem only too well.
You do seem to be getting better than average medical support in your posted case here.
I wish this was more general- as we seem to be a somewhat neglected fraternity most of the time.
This little community tries to re- address the problem ,at least.
If this is your first attack proper – then it is a shock. Most established gouties have learned to deal with pain and some major neglect from medics. I have had wonky looks from X-ray people when trying to mention gout as a factor in ankle problems- they just don't get it . We DO !
My personal suspicion on your situation is that there is a 3rd factor involved, apart from those mentioned- so I would keep an open mind and push for the best cover you can get from your medics right now.
The one 'unknown' is the impact of your AlloP treatment- which can re-trigger symptoms for some months still but at 5 mg/dl unlikely to persist for too much longer. If that is NOT soon the case, then a further factor must be implicated.
One final aspect is the hormonal angle:
If you're athletic and maybe slightly underweight- this may remove your natural protection provided by hormonal balance. This is the major stated reason for younger women gaining protection from gout attacks.
Being single many years and having no warm body [ to press for divorce due to cold feet searching out warmer buddies] – I can definitely state that single male buddies are lethal for gout due to the beer 'round buying' syndrome which doesn't lend itself to wine in the same way.
In any case, being my own 'old biiddy' is curiously rewarding, probably due to the 'taking care of inner child' or similar -being life affirmative, in someone past sell by date!
My old [er], non gouty, beer drinking buddy has moved back to base this year- so my gout regime has improved no end
A good tip is buy thick, small wine glasses and when you've broken all the thin ,smart large ones that ring like bells and seem to be 1/3 bott. – you can return to sensible portions…
Saving 1/3 bott. in used smaller ones and fridging them can help lessen the urge to drink the bottle.
This size is 2 small glasses conveniently enough.
Jeeze ! – the things one learns on GP.
I wasn't expecting to post on this ,as I have little experience of RA.
However, in that both Gout and Arthrtitis are auto-immune diseases and a genetic link has been postulated many times in my reading on Gout.
I have Arthritis in my family lineage and that has always given me a 'get out card' on feeling guilty about lifetime dietary habits that may have worsened gout in myself.
I have spoken to someone who's mother had gout at 30 years age , similar to you, and never drank alcohol & who's step father [mothers new partner] drank like a fish (then older, I suppose also) without the slightest wisp of the crystaline daggers…
I don't know of the grandparents status on this.
He apparently found that amusing..so I would suggest an attack 'looking for a home' goes his way…
So- I put the fact of arthritis in the family as high, if not top, of the list indicating that gene modified enzyme precursor has to be the start of all our gouty woes.
So, they are in the same stable-I've never seen a reference to Gout preceding RA- though Gout is referred to as Gouty Arthritis plenty of times.
Though you may feel unlucky in getting this young- you will have a good chance of nailing/managing it early ,as advised by GP above, before being hamstrung, in later years, by BP, extra body weight and maybe prescription drug reactions- that are more likely to interfere with easy resolutions when SUA has coasted to a too high level.
It will be really interesting to know your readings on Serum [Blood] UA levels as it IS unusual in someone your age.
Hopefully, the increasing move to gout reseach increasing, at least in diagnosis and drug therapy will come to help you in time, too!
Have you considered Tendonitis, or maybe Fibrositis? This can take a long time to clear, Aspirin was best for my episodes, many years ago.[Worsened by heat and high humidity].
This could be gout related too- and a lot has happened to you in one episode already.
It will take time to heal- I have low level remnants of old attack pains capable of arising anytime over many weeks, if joints are contiually stressed.
[ I walked 20 miles total- last week, in two walks]
You're on the right treatment and doing well.
The movement restriction, you quote remaining, seems too much to ignore.
I would re-present to your medical support.
Not wishing to appear gullible- but I thought food contents had to be listed by law?
I wouldn't want Soda BiCarb anyway due to BP issues ,as you know on the sodium content- but the acidity thing with lemon is connected with enzyme behaviour, which assists in chemical processing.
That was my broad understanding of the mechanism, but how it does it is still a mystery.
Lemon in water is often recommended for Gout.
I've tried it and not noticed any effect.
