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Zal- I’m all for alternative approaches ,if they can help, but how can you really test your new additions [above] if you are already on AlloP- a specific for Gout treatment?
Could you clarify GP- Is it illegal to import Uloric into the UK?
Can it be prescribed by private prescription?
I appreciate you have to protect your position over illegal importations.
Thanks, VGuy- one day on anti bios was enough to start the cure, but the bite site is still growing…the
swelling is down, but not so much at the knee.
I know my SUA is not low enough to protect me from these excursions- but this is the first real problem in a year! No meds. and I think it was just a misfortune [like gout itself].
Within a day I was getting back on track- with an attack proper, a week is usual.
I'm on a BP med that can affect Blood sugar regulation but the test was missed off the list last time..What a struggle, sometimes just to get work done..
I did get 2 low blood sugar ones with my Kernel checker- but tbh, fed up with worrying about' this and that' overmuch. I had hoped to compare results [as previously borderline pre-diabetic].
Meds seem to knock me out quite easily- so I wouldn't be surprised about the Blood Sugar bit.
PS: On the Lyme tick issue..you would not believe this- today coming back through the copse a few hundred yards from home a large deer ran by- followed by a spaniel I'd seen chasing around before. This was indeed a surprise- as it is adjacent to a busy main road and doesn't lead anywhere. Mmmm…
PS Rest assured I don't take SUA issues lightly, but as Gout was triggered by BP meds [ a strong indicator] I have lost confidence in the ready use of drugs- though still take 4 for BP.
[NO diuretics , now]
Odo – Just saw your post come in after posting to Monaco … Yes, a general response, I agree.
Never ever had a gout problem in my hip or knee – in fact the pain area was slightly down from the joint and in the thighbone- tendon or muscle attachment point. The knee swelling has only just covered the pain areas after 2 days and wasn’t the same routine as gout.
I think the immune system kicked in where existing crystals might be- but unable to tell. It is already easing, anyway.
On the culprit front- a few days before I swept another insect of my arm that was just preparing to have a feed on me- the needle puncture effect actually woke me up from a doze and I just caught a glimpse of a little weevil thing that had probably got me from a local copse I’d walked through earlier.
I swept it instantly to the floor- never found it. No reaction, that time- which surprised me a bit.
This later event could well have been a horse fly- but I never see them around, usually.
Fair comment Monaco, but the one thing that isn't too variable in the equation was me!
I know I have gout and how it behaves- this event is different, though I suspect there are co factors between this sudden infection and gout behaviour.
The knee and hip pain were just to soon after the bite and the course of the event is somewhat different to gout. No gout joint in a main attack has ever taken body load for me- and even though the twisting & bending movement on the knee is still limited in a day or so it is quiet when not worked and takes a good walking weight without pain. This is not gout, as such. More a mimic due to inflammation.
Now it has settled quite a lot- the old gout minor twinges from the actual gout flare earlier are back on board and quite welcome by comparison. These are actually nearer the bite site !
Due to being only too aware of the medical system ,I got what I needed in hours- an antibiotic for a week , a free sticking plaster -and another experience to add to the list.
Don't forget the swab report is yet to produce…
I suppose it depends on the pain you can take and your lifestyle requirements ,Fred.
Dr's also vary- some reluctant to prescribe early, others bang straight in. depends how caring/worried about being sued to a large degree.
What do you feel? This matters – and from your comments it seems you would rather wait. This can be done- as I do it, with a 100mg AlloP in the drawer as a talisman. Like the Colchicine, I prefer not to use it- but it's nice to have it there!
I'm having a 'flare' right now (5 years in) but not needing to work, can take it suitably easy- even if keeping outdoors activity down somewhat. I hope to scrape through. It's not a 'Big One'
That is the future you may face, without meds. – so if you go for them successfully (no side effects etc) life can be easier & less painful, for sure. Many on here support this line.
With the amount of history you have, by most standards, it could be seen as too early to medicate – so I would hold off to see how things develop , whilst trimming diet and lifestyle- seriously.
Chances are you will scrape by, but only IF you do this successfully!
Lay off alcohol and known triggers ( if you know yours, if not you will find out).
Try Black Bean broth (this site), it can be helpful at start up times. Colchicine is useful too.
Work out a plan with your Doc.- hopefully he will value your self interest.
[PS: SUA of 7.0 is only just in the 'danger zone' for known gouties -esp. if you don't suffer from High BP.]
Knee pain= bells ringing= Psuedogout?
This is always a possibility and seems to get missed as easily as gout.
A different treatment for it and equally painful to suffer , I gather.
If you can get body Calcium levels checked, as not high, this may help in your diagnosis.
Ouch- I understand your comments.
Anything I've read about diet factors say any meds are going to be acidic to the body.Gout is an acidic condition.
This may be counteracted by water intake to some degree. I took for sometime, a gout cure that req'd much added water and after a while I just tried to make do with the water. This wasn't, still isn't, too easy -as I forget to keep up the effort- rarely feeling really dry.
This is a BIG mistake with gout , to neglect water intake as a habit. I just did 5 pints of ale over the w/e and haven't had a twinge, amazingly, but I know to keep up the effort on H2O for a few days, at least, to compensate.
Further, in my search for the source of stomach discomfort, I was appraised of the additive Magnesium Stearate (Beef or Veg source, the same effect) or Stearic Acid [and other psuedonyms] all add up to trouble – for the gut, at least. It smears the gut and converts to wax.
This stuff is a machine lube which has not been tested for EU safety afaik, but is listed in US carrier laws as to be notified (maybe for dust explosion hazard) but otherwise potentially bad for humans. it is included in small amounts be default in meds, herbals [that I took] and vit pills-
So, something else ,like fluoride, that is supposed to be 'OK' [blah blah] but for some , fails the test as to acceptabilty.
Stopping all the 3 offenders, as far as permissible, has eased my problem somewhat.
Take note , that we are all part of an 'average' – but the small deviations from 'normal' for individuals can be critical, if sensitive.
On average, we all and up dead, tbh!
Your rec'd advice as to incr. water shows some professionals in health, if on the secondary front, have awareness of 'across the spectrum' long term effects of drugs admin, and to me , is a good point to remember. AlloP , or not
[Edit: PS I don't take meds for gout either, and-
Yes! my 'standby' AlloP has Stearic Acid listed!]
Yeah, I don't wish to be mean- but when asked these pain questions it would be nice to have a button on the mobile that deliivered a 1 min [to be kind about this] dose of gout pain to the questioner, as a response. Particularly good for medics, who don't 'get it'.
Mind out though, we don't get overmuch sympathy now – and this may not help improve things ;~)
Well Aaron- don't stay confused on here. If we can't help right away someone will start digging and a surprise comment may pop up weeks later, that is helpful.
Keep a flagged watch [see box below post screen,when logged in] on your own thread like this one- and a prompt will get notified later.
Meanwhile, whatever the lack of accurate or professional data- it still helps to share when the pain gets you down.
We've all been 'in the pits' over this cruel illness.
The science on gout just doesn't get done, at least where diet and lifestyle are concerned.
It can be quite frightening to be in such pain so suddenly and everyone who should help looking rather blank- or at best indecisive.
Also, as a metabolic disease, naturally ones metabolism comes into it and everyone is slightly different on this point- that's what makes us wonderful
Rough rules are :
Stay away from meat and high [non veg] purines.
Dairy is OK, whatever the acid load.
Bran is necessary for health -and I don't see it as a problem myself keeping to Spelt.
Beans are loaded with purines. [beer=yeast]
It's a balance thing!
You must learn what does for you- or take meds., eventually. Simples!
Water.
This is not gospel, but pretty well all veg is alkalzing. Some cruciferous veg like broccoli and cauli are said to be bad for gout so I minimalize these somewhat. The dark green reminds me of spinach ,and this is also on the 'bad' list, so may have oxalates that mess up your food balance.Whether something is permitted or not doesn't always fix the issue, it seems.
Getting stuff 90% right is better than banging along regardless and expecting results to improve!
Try Savoy Cabbage. Good luck with BBB- should help some.
My recommend is to forget the beer till you are better balanced on the gout front.
I get away with a few wines occasionally- up to a bottle even 🙂 but can feel the effects on joints. Ensure extra water at these deviating times.
Other drinks are supposed to be OK but my exp. is to 'get alkalizing' on food stuffs- as well as low purine.
No guarantee here- but it can be a big help.
Have you been offered/asked for Colchicine?
You probably won't be offered SUA lowering meds., one attack in- so this sharp starter attack [not always the case] has given you notice about getting on top of the situation early.
I've never found cherry juice that specially effective, though raw cherries are great if you can get them- but Black Bean Broth [see here- big thread] is definitely helpful in knocking back an attack for me.
Hi K- Just caught your post . For a quick reply right now- The swelling can typically last a week at least and double that for taking care with what you do- to stop repeats.
Diet info abounds on her/online- but many support meds for aggressive cases and something to be said for this ,if you have a busy work schedule and need mobility at all times.
Stress is a big factor in gout and BP may need checking too.
Colchicine is the drug of choice for relief in the early days- while repeat attacks are awaited to gauge how persistent the gout will be. It won't let go easily, though. Painkillers can wear off and have side effects, if strong enough to work in gout.
Water intake in repeat small measures during the day is a must from now on.
I find sandals invaluable [have some under the desk] – but for formal work you will have to research the specialist shoe market for easing pressure.
I hope you are getting over the immediate attack now- but it does need time.
Aaron- you have the right advice here on the broad management to gout.
Getting 'wised up' on your SUA test levels or even getting a meter to self test is helpful and gives you feedback on your chosen approach. It's not painfull- just a pinprick, but not cheap.
One thing NEVER to forget, and it gets harder with increasing age, is keeping hydrated.
When you're sick of drinking water you probably could do with more.. nearly everyone struggles on this, I reckon- but it is a absolutely necessary part of gout prevention.
Don't go mad, though- and overdo it. An 'extra to normal' litre a day will help, even.
Diuretic meds are quoted as contributing to gout for their very aim of ridding the body [inc.blood] of fluid volume. They triggered my episodes , I'm sure.
Yes Zip – your response clarifies the position. My exp is probably just chance!
In fact , thinking about your points, any kidney damage would put BP up on that 'feed in'- so any imbalance in circulation going down to the legs [if any difference] would favour that side to resist gout, due to better pressure, other things being equal -like arterial/veinous restrictions at certain sites.
Given the complexity of the blood regulatory system though, nothing would surprise me !
@VGuy above: Well one thing is clear to me that diet can provide secondary help ONLY
I can understand this opinion well enough as diet has only been advised over the years and never monitored afaik as to results. Meds are mostly a certain result barring reactions so is bound to be used as a guage.
I recently stopped 2 meds that are known to be involved in SUA levels and now am back to basics with diet as the main way to keep SUA in reasonable check. I doubt whether this could produce more than a stabilising effect on SUA, averaging below 6 would be good enough for me.
As discussed elsewhere, the secondary effects of tophi round the system may not necessarily trigger gout ,more likely adding to aches and pains often written down to age.
Without gout in such cases it would never be monitored in any way- neither the rise in SUA due to ageing- *without gout.
What is the background info on this- anyone seem data?
DarkRain said:
Also I've come to the conclusion that whichever side you have gout on seems to be determined by which kidney is weaker than the other in processing uric acid. Left leg, left kidney, right leg, right kidney. Any thoughts on this?
This is true for me- I have some scarring on left kidney and most attacks seem that side.[say 3:1]
Bad ankle, main and small joint on big toe -and only that side a small toe alone- which seemed odd in itself, at the time.
Also, elsewhere is posted a note about minor injuries calling in gouty feelings but these lately have been the same either side- on the right, a months old double nail loss whack which still rumbles on.
I feel this is reflecting two extra nodes to gout on top of the main attack event:
One , the predisposition to sides- and the other a general sensitivity to marked injury, which doesn't ever threaten to get 'really' gouty, whatever the side involved.
David- This just goes to show there ARE triggers, how ever much people deny it!
I doubt if the orange had any effect. Shellfish is too much a risk for many gouties. I have got away with it , but – like you knew i was taking a risk. [Atlantic prawns]
Many variables effect gout hitting in -and it's a difficult job pinning them down Even meds can't save you sometimes! 🙁
I eat skinless fish, small portion one a week-[Cod- but th info varies on whether this is the best] Note: Skinned- as that is where the purines are reputed to be.
We don't need loads of protein -and in the old days folks just didn't have the option ,but marched 100 miles on foot to do battle often enough!
If you're mostly veggie that's a big plus, anyway and this is just the fine tuning now, I hope.
Bear in mind it's taken decades for this process to set up- so it will take time to find the right diiet and meds approach.
Richard also shows how leaning on meds to do the work is a mistake and is how this genetic immune problem catches us in the first place -by being hidden so long before hitting in, but the body gets fussier with age- and can certainly let us know in the 'gout arena'!
Though there's been some argument here on Colchicine use as a preventitive measure- I can't see the point of taking it low dose once an attack is over and you're on AlloP successfully.
It would not seem unreasonable to ask to stop Colch. now. It's not a 'lightweight' med imo.- to take if you don't absolutely need to.
Docs are paid damn well, usually – so don't feel shy about checking this out.
Nick- it's good to see a quick turn around in your symptoms.
It's said an ounce of foresight is worth a ton of care (somewhere read, or similar).
I hope that with your regular monitoring and awareness of impending twinges you can stay ahead of gout.
I would like to have tried S.Bi myself, as I think it's a short cut solution to alkalizing the body [if not exactly ideal]- but as I suffer from hard to treat Hi B.P. – I didn't like to risk the sodium intake accorded by this route.
Your success will not allow much testing of your 'Lo Purine' beer strategy, if you are already keeping clear of symptoms for the forseeable future, though. That's a good problem, indeed!
Nate- Good to get feedback on this..
If you do go for Vit D, then try to get one without magnesium stearate in it.
I checked mine [D3] and there it was- a form of chalk, to make the manufacture easier, not my health.
The majority of my meds have it too, which I can't avoid taking. I doubt the Dr would be bothered by fillers/additives in drugs- they are a magic bullet these days.
Mercola article here has a good take on the subject : http://articles.mercola.com/si…..ealth.aspx
Comments there say that Mag. Stearate is heavily in chocolate and large amounts have no effect -but I noticed a re- occurrence of persistent mild stomach ache [I'm due an Xray soon] not long after eating some last night, after some days free of gripe -after stopping two meds with it [MgSt] in. [Yep, – those fave 2]
It has only just registered with me now -I had my suspicions, back then![both the meds and chocs]
Makes one wonder, rather! I wonder if it will show any effects of use on the X-ray?
The sad part is that it could be easily left out- but would make manufacture harder.
Later : Further info on-line clarifies that the body can break the stuff down, but it forms a sort of soap in the gut- so enhanced transport through is rather likely!
It's a lubricant, after all.
Another factor is that it appears to be produced as a form of fatty acid that is not good for the body, as a diet. It is also on the US code of Hazardous transport materials in bulk … well- I hate to be over nervous but it pays to check, sometimes!
I've closed the link to this added data, but if anyone want I can search back.
[Had to change browsers again!]
Hans- this Vit D thing is being mentioned a lot lately.
Mercola is very strong on it being low in most people- but he does stress the testing of personal levels.
I don't think this is cheap or easy, as there are 'ways' and 'ways of doing this test correctly' as can easily give misleading readings.
I would dearly like to know if my levels are correct- but the NHS in the UK is not very hot on the body assaying tests that is far more common in the US, for instance.
As it's 'free', GPs are not keen here to overload with the 'worried well' – until they become the VERY worried sick, that is.
PS: I think the main danger for cancer risk is severe over exposure to sun -even years earlier in childhood & can have bad effects, much later on -and naturally, not be traceable by then.
If one suffers from SAD (seasonal depression) then I would suspect low Vit D levels, too.
I've tried Devils Claw drops (as a tincture) and never found it of benefit, or otherwise.
The tea form may be more effective, but I read recently warnings about use , I can't remember details.
The problem with home cures is unknown ,unreported effects- yet in some cases, people swear by their effectiveness. If they work, then side effects are less a problem.
Interesting link – but heavy on the book sales! The right one to have is D3 (I limit to 1000 iu) and there certainly are many ways to get vits [cheap and cheerful? -or 'thought through'], which I take on and off, daily.
I make sure I don't oversubscribe any of them. the only supplement that I keep to daily is Omega3, high quality -from the US.
If in the middle of an attack- the last thing one needs is a overactive immune system, tbh !
It's been stressed here, many times, that good dietary balance is important and the same goes for Vitamin supplements- the best quality are far from cheap but usually worth the cost and research.
It's been noted that heavy doses of Vits [like C in particular] can make the body lazy and stop it synthesizing its own needs properly.
It seems here is a case to support moderation on Vit D use and gout-
Bear in mind that tanning is the bodys' self regulation to prevent over production, naturally occuring via the skin.
I come down for a sneak dacaff tea (good for sleep) in the night and always seem top find a tempting item here to pitch into- when I really shouldn't 😉
I've 'bent' a few toes recently stumbling out of bed to catch a phone call when not quite with it and reall whacking my foot on a solid chair leg. OOOuuuch !
I was convinced I'd broken at least one minor bone but stuck with it till last week when the little toe seemed to be bigger than before, even though easing painwise on walking. So Blue card to Radiology/
X ray was clear- [after 6 weeks it might well be] of fractures apparently but being 'gout conscious' I am aware that this swelling could be associated. The nearby old big toe site has been twanging ominously after one year quiescent (volcanos come to mind [Iceland] ) though I've recently juggled BP meds, and put it down to that.
Now I'm wondering if it really is the injury bringing healing, but incidently gout, to the area. Gout is immune system over reacting and this is probably the most likely mechanism involved in injury/ gout issues. The hurt area is not giving gout signs though and I'm hopeful my recent approaches will keep me clear of attacks.
Basically like Met- watching diet, water and alcohol like a hawk! Also looking forward to getting back walking- now foot easing a lot.
Hi Nate- Docs do vary a lot , don't they. having a good 'one to one' working relationship is important. But the friendly ones are always [necessarily] the best!
Nothing worse than one right up themselves… Docs usually like prescribing more than most like taking meds., for sure!
You will get more detailed explanations on 24 hr urine test from people here who have done it – but the main aim apart from checking kidneys is to see whether you're an under excreter or over producer of uric acid- and thus aid decide the treatment of high SUA, and the subsequent gout .
This is a good test to do- and can only enhance diagnosis of your gout so bear with it, like with the pain- as you know you can!
It does look a bit odd. I noticed this, myself.
Raisins and certain nuts would affect the alkalinity positively away from acid- but cereals are usually on the acid side in general, one reason why I find the [alkaline] diet tough- as I like them, and home made bread too!
Additions to grain cereals dont usually go over the top proportion wise- due to price, if nothing else. Maybe Keith will comment? I don't see the Gen Mills type much in the UK.
[The name does register ,though]
yep CJ- I'd take a punt and bet that if you haven't had a knee gout and now under control in the feet- you would be Ok.
What I'm saying is my exp with running and others too, is that the knees are prone to damage eventually and with gout you really need a more gentle regular, and keep you supple, exercise esp. on the extremities. I'm looking long term.
Something to watch with a cautious eye, you won't need reminding what gout feels like ,should you be so unlucky in the knee dept!
